– Episode 299Narad Kutowaroo

Episode 299: Transcript

GMSB 299

[00:00:00]Grow My Salon Business: Hey, it’s Antony Whitaker here, and welcome to today’s episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast. And whether this is your first time or perhaps you are a regular listener, thank you for tuning in today. Now, in case you don’t already know, video versions of our podcast and now also available on our YouTube channel.

[00:00:22] Grow My Salon Business: So if you wanna put faces to the names, then head on over to Grow My Salon Business on YouTube. And don’t forget to like and subscribe to the channel. So with that said on with today’s episode, now my guest today is a gentleman by the name of Narad Kurtowaroo, who is the creative director for Unite Haircare brand in the uk.

[00:00:45] Grow My Salon Business: And in today’s podcast we’re gonna discuss Runway Ready, which is a two day hairstyling course that’s offered to Unite clients where the participants are then guaranteed a place working backstage at London Fashion Week. And then we’ll also talk about how the skills learned on the course can also help improve the Hairdresser’s salon work and what the skills are that make a salon hairdresser be able to adapt to working backstage at Fashion Week.

[00:01:14] Grow My Salon Business: So without further ado, welcome to the show Narad.

[00:01:18] Narad Kutowaroo: Hi Antony. How are you?

[00:01:19] Grow My Salon Business: I am very good and I hope I pronounced your first name correctly. And I’m not even gonna attempt to pronounce your surname. In fact, I will. It’s Narad Kurtowaroo which is I think I’ve done not too bad a job on at that time.

[00:01:34] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah. Fantastic. On the surname.

[00:01:36] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. I know it’s a difficult one to, to get your mouth around, so to speak.

[00:01:40] Grow My Salon Business: But Narad, it’s great to have you here to talk to us today. Now, I really wanted to get you on the show because I was talking to Malcolm, Lacey in the uk. and Malcolm is the distributor, as you obviously know of Unite Haircare. And he was telling me all about Runway Ready. And I thought what a amazing concept it was.

[00:02:00] Grow My Salon Business: And so that’s why I really wanted to get you on the podcast ’cause I know that you spearhead the runway Ready. Course here in the uk and you lead the backstage teams at London Fashion Week for Unite. So I think a good place to start is it something that’s a new initiative? Or is this something that’s been going on for a while?

[00:02:23] Narad Kutowaroo: So we’ve had it in the UK now for a few seasons, but I’d still say it’s relatively new here. It was born in the US so our global creative director, Gary Baker it was his idea initially. It all comes from this idea of, sitting in your staff room on your break wherever you are in the world.

[00:02:46] Narad Kutowaroo: But. Predominantly outside of any of the fashion capitals and, potentially flicking through a magazine and looking at these runway pictures or even just editorial, shoots and just, I definitely know that feeling myself and, wondering like, how. How would I get into that?

[00:03:03] Narad Kutowaroo: What is that world? It feels quite disconnected, I think at times, especially when you are just working in a salon. Not even just being a young person in a salon. You could have been working in salon for a long time and still wondering like, how, what is this other world? And so the idea is it’s to open a door and make that easy for people to come and have an experience.

[00:03:25] Narad Kutowaroo: of fashion week and, to get a peek behind the curtain should we say at that world. And, having an opportunity to see if, that could be a potential thing for them.

[00:03:36] Grow My Salon Business: Great. Okay. Let me dig into a lot of that. You touched on a lot of key points here that I wanna, talk more about

[00:03:40] Grow My Salon Business:. You do it in the UK but it’s also, it started in the US. I know Unite’s in lots of different countries as a brand. Is it in any other countries or just UK and the US?

[00:03:51] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah, so myself and Gary, so we normally teach the course together. So I’ve been going out to New York for some time, but it was, he was doing it be even before I joined in. So we do it there, we do it in London, we’ve done it in Germany. And me and Gary also started doing it outta Japan, which is pretty amazing.

[00:04:09] Narad Kutowaroo: I feel like we are really just getting into a position where we could potentially be doing it in many other places. The fashion weeks around the globe are really endless.

[00:04:18] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah,

[00:04:19] Narad Kutowaroo: There’s, we could it’s got a lot of potential to be in, in lots of places.

[00:04:22] Narad Kutowaroo: it doesn’t have to be just in those places.

[00:04:24] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah it’s something that Unite as far as I’m aware, are the only product brand of any significance that are doing something like this. And I think that’s a great point of difference. How often do you put the course itself on? Is it just a once a year thing, or is it running, more than that?

[00:04:42] Narad Kutowaroo: So we normally have it before the fashion weeks. So for example we normally do one like in January for the February shows in London. But then also they run classes out of the United Head office in Carlsbad. In San Diego. And then we also do run a course, which is literally the first two days pre, fashion week in New York. So we do a two day course, then we go straight into the shows in New York as well. So we scatter them. So obviously there’s always two rounds of fashion week, a year. So we’d have a class and then we’d go into those shows with those students.

[00:05:23] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. So when we talk about the course or the class how long is it? Is it like a week or a day or a couple of days? How much time, is devoted to it.

[00:05:33] Narad Kutowaroo: The class itself is a two day class. So it’s in a bootcamp style. It’s not a sort of traditional class in that, in that sense. So it’s very hands-on. It, we really it’s an experience. We really throw people in at the deep end. We get a lot of emotion out of people as well when they come.

[00:05:53] Narad Kutowaroo: It’s exciting. It’s like daunting. I think that we go for a real, rollercoaster of like emotions and people, which is a very exciting thing to be a part of. And what’s amazing is obviously at the end, at the end of the two days, there’s obviously limits on what you can teach in two days, but we cover basic things that we know when you work with us on our team, these are skills that you are gonna use.

[00:06:21] Narad Kutowaroo: We cover the basics of things that we’re gonna do and then. At the end, you are the team or part of the team. So you know, that’s what’s great. You’ve had two days to really bond with these people that you’ve never met before. And then, from there on out, we go out and hit the shows.

[00:06:37] Narad Kutowaroo: And that could be, many I. Season or in that week, depending on where in the world we are. And Yeah.

[00:06:45] Narad Kutowaroo: it’s just a, it is a lot of fun. I always say with Gary’s very strict, shall we say. He’s like the bad cop. And I say I’m, I try and angle myself as more the good cop.

[00:06:54] Grow My Salon Business: Okay. That’s good to have that mix.

[00:06:56] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah.

[00:06:57] Grow My Salon Business: I know you said in the US you do them in Carlsbad, in Unite’s head office in San Diego. Where do you do it? In the UK?

[00:07:05] Narad Kutowaroo: So we work out of Lacey’s, so in, in Readding so just west of London. So yeah, so at their distribution place for Unite in the UK.

[00:07:15] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah I know they’ve got a fantastic education facility there, so that’s obviously perfect for that. Okay who can enroll in the course? Is it obvious? Is it, I’m assuming it’s just for hairdressers, but oftentimes you get people that are makeup artists and stuff that decide to lend their hand at doing here as well.

[00:07:32] Grow My Salon Business: What sort of restrictions are there around that?

[00:07:35] Narad Kutowaroo: The class itself is open to customers of Unite or people that are interested in working with Unite. The actual sort of skill level, I think it’s probably fair that you would need to be a hairdresser.

[00:07:47] Narad Kutowaroo: But within that realm, like a team is always made up of so many different parts.

[00:07:55] Narad Kutowaroo: So we have. A scope of, I have people that come that have got 30 years experience versus people that have qualified last year because we also get people that are sent or come on the course for different reasons. Some might have been sent by their boss and other people may have like really been looking at it for a long time and come.

[00:08:15] Narad Kutowaroo: I think sometimes people see it as, or also people have been confused before about thinking it’s like a sort of hair up style course or something like that.

[00:08:25] Narad Kutowaroo: Which is definitely not. And it is all about just working with hair and I think how to control hair. like how to do an amazing ponytail is very niche.

[00:08:35] Narad Kutowaroo: The great thing about the classroom is that. Everyone that’s in there is into the same thing. So

[00:08:41] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:42] Narad Kutowaroo: it’s quite nice to share that. But, and we can all obsess over the the intricacies of how to do a pony tail properly.

[00:08:49] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:08:49] Narad Kutowaroo: it is a very,

[00:08:50] Grow My Salon Business: that was interesting that you said that, some people think it’s a hair up class, but  it’s not. That’s interesting in itself. That, that you say that. What do you mean by that? Because I suppose that is what a lot of people would automatically think that it’s about.

[00:09:04] Grow My Salon Business: I’m trying not to put the words into your mouth. So if it’s not a hair up class, what, how would you describe it?

[00:09:11] Narad Kutowaroo: So I think that’s like a lot of people come, because traditionally what happens is at the beginning we say okay, what’s your expectation? And people say, oh, I’m not I’m not very good at putting hair up. I’m looking forward to knowing how to do that.

[00:09:24] Narad Kutowaroo: We a hundred percent give you those skills, but it’s not just about putting hair up.

[00:09:29] Narad Kutowaroo: We are working number one, like the thing that we do backstage. We very rarely work alone. So it’s all about working in the team. You’re often in pairs, threes, fours, and it’s all just about, for me anyway, it’s a lot of structure and like how you are. It’s treating the hair. It’s not hair.

[00:09:49] Narad Kutowaroo: It’s like a material. That’s what we’re doing. So if there’s a vision, it’s like how do we get from A to B? Quickly and efficiently and using what tools. So our tools are obviously the Unite products, but it’s like in what way are we using these products? So we’re often using products in a different way that you would usually

[00:10:11] Narad Kutowaroo: So some of the the products that would normally just be on the sort of shelf in the salon or your go to, I have a couple of pumps of this one and I like a couple of spritz of that at the end, and I use a little bit of this for that. You might end up using half a can of that just in the prep.

[00:10:27] Narad Kutowaroo: And it’s and that’s often like a big thing that people take away is they’re like, oh my God. There’s so much, we use so much more product than I’m used to. And it’s just changing that sort of it’s changing your eye and changing like the way you think and the way that you are looking at products.

[00:10:43] Narad Kutowaroo: And I think that is the key I think, is that by the end of the two days we’ve tried to get your eye to change slightly in what you’re actually looking at.

[00:10:52] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Okay. That’s interesting. Are Unite products designed specifically or are part of the range designed specifically for editorial work or not necessarily.

[00:11:06] Narad Kutowaroo: Unite has always been it’s like a fashion led haircare brand. So that’s like at heart what it is. It’s fantastic to be able to use the products in all the fashion capitals at all the fashion weeks. But Yeah.

[00:11:21] Narad Kutowaroo: The products work so well for us, but we definitely have some of our standout things that we do and that we use because, in all product ranges there’s certain things and that products that I shy away from a lot of the time in my work are ones that I can’t reverse, that I need to be able to know that I can still change.

[00:11:43] Narad Kutowaroo: What I’ve done. So for instance, say some things like like things like the powders and dust and stuff. Like once that’s in, that ain’t coming out. And that’s great when you know that’s what you want. But if you’re still trying to play around with something, or you need to change it on a last minute because someone’s changed their mind or you’ve changed your mind, do you know what I mean?

[00:12:03] Narad Kutowaroo: It’s like knowing. That’s the other thing that we, work with, is we’re working with products that we can quickly, manipulate and change if we have to.

[00:12:10] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah,

[00:12:11] Narad Kutowaroo: We always have to be ready for that. Again, in, in the scenario that we are teaching for, which is backstage, we have to be ready for any change last minute, and we really hammer that home in the class.

[00:12:24] Narad Kutowaroo: And I think we do it to a degree that normally when we get to the show, a lot of the time people aren’t surprised anymore because we’ve already thrown all these curve balls at them during the class.

[00:12:34] Narad Kutowaroo: It’s almost oh no, that does actually happen. You’re like yeah, a hundred percent. It definitely happens.

[00:12:38] Narad Kutowaroo: People changing their mind all the time,

[00:12:40] Grow My Salon Business: yeah.

[00:12:40] Grow My Salon Business: Alright, so in these classes, how many people would be on the course, how many people you referred to it as bootcamp, so how many people would be in bootcamp?

[00:12:49] Narad Kutowaroo: so I feel like the most, I think the most we’ve had is like 15 pairs, so it’s 30,

[00:12:56] Narad Kutowaroo: But that doesn’t mean you have to come with a. Partner.

[00:12:59] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:12:59] Narad Kutowaroo: We do often get like salon groups that might come together. So there might be like two or three that have come from one place. You get someone who works on their own

[00:13:07] Narad Kutowaroo: But what we really encourage is we, ’cause obviously as humans we like to stick to what we know. So a lot of the time, like the students will come and then they’ll all stick together around their one mannequin. So what we really encourage is that we actually break those groups up.

[00:13:21] Grow My Salon Business: Right.

[00:13:22] Narad Kutowaroo: we really intermix because another thing is if we do come to Fashion Week with us, we can’t promise that you are gonna be with your best friend all week, because a lot of the time we end up having multiple shows running at the same time across the city.

[00:13:38] Narad Kutowaroo: Some of us might all start at one and then we have to splinter the group off and half go here and then the other half go there

[00:13:45] Grow My Salon Business: Okay.

[00:13:45] Narad Kutowaroo: So when you are describing that it’s like that can put a lot of pressure on people. What sort of, unless you’re confident, what sort of level of experience would you say someone needed to come on? The course.

[00:13:59] Narad Kutowaroo: I honestly think I don’t think it’s about your experience. I think all you’ve got to have is a want or desire to be interested in just checking it out. ’cause if you’ve got a want or desire for it, then it’s totally for you. The rest of it we can teach you. And as I say, having people that have been like qualified for a year or have only just started hairdressing versus someone who’s got 30 experience across that, there’s, strengths in all of it because a lot of the time, younger people or like the people that have only just started, don’t have a, preconception of what they’re supposed to do.

[00:14:38] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:14:38] Narad Kutowaroo: So a lot of the time they get stuck right in and it’s their first experience. So they’re like, really into it. Likewise, people that have got 30 years experience, they do have some of these definite skills that you need, like actual, physical, can I do a set very quickly and stuff.

[00:14:56] Narad Kutowaroo: They have that nailed in because that’s just part of their like DNA almost. So there’s stuff for everyone, and as I say, because you’re working in pairs, Believe it or not, there’s some things that I’m actually not as good as some other people are doing.

[00:15:10] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah of course

[00:15:10] Narad Kutowaroo: So in certain shows, there’s times when I will take more of a backseat and let someone else do their hair.

[00:15:15] Narad Kutowaroo: And that’s the great thing about the team is that you get it done. And I think that’s what’s so amazing is when we do some of these weeks and it’s really full on and you start to get that comradery and this like group effort and like that sort of feeling together when you know you’ve absolutely smashed it and like you, you might have been up against it because the model count was really high or whatever other challenge is thrown at you.

[00:15:42] Narad Kutowaroo: But together, between you, you managed to pull it off and some of my the best memories that I have of it, I’m even smiling thinking about it now. Like some of it, it’s just, it is just such a good vibe because as I say, sometimes it’s, especially if you work on your own and you’re not surrounded by other hairdressers, to then find a group of  people that are in as mad about something as you are.

[00:16:02] Narad Kutowaroo: You know what I mean? That’s,

[00:16:03] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:04] Narad Kutowaroo: there’s something quite nice about that.

[00:16:06] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Yeah. When they’re doing the course, I know you said it was two days. If you come in, raw, so to speak, completely unexperienced, two days isn’t very long. Are they working, is it a demonstration or are they working on models or are they working on mannequin heads?

[00:16:22] Grow My Salon Business: How does that side of it work?

[00:16:25] Narad Kutowaroo: So we. So you work in, definitely work in pairs.

[00:16:28] Narad Kutowaroo: So it’s, you’re gonna be paired up with a partner and there’s a mannequin head between you. So we always start the class. And this has changed over time just from what we’ve learned and what we’ve experienced. So we ask them to show us.

[00:16:46] Narad Kutowaroo: Set. There’s a always a set number of things we wanna see on this mannequin head,

[00:16:51] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:16:52] Narad Kutowaroo: and that’s purely just put out there just so that we can, a gauge, where everyone is at and what their understanding is. And then also just the language that’s being used because you know what it’s like.

[00:17:02] Narad Kutowaroo: Someone wants to have a long bob, but what is a long bob? Do you know what I mean? It’s it is, I understand like when I say, can I have a pin curl or like a horizontal curl? what’s a beach wave? Do you know what I mean? It’s that’s what we’re just trying to understand, like where everyone’s at and what they’re thinking.

[00:17:18] Narad Kutowaroo: And as I say, it like manages to get everyone to a level playing field. As I say, there’s another human element of this thing. When you walk into that room initially, you know that you are looking at everyone else thinking I bet they’re good.

[00:17:32] Narad Kutowaroo: Or oh, maybe I might be a bit better than them. I dunno. That’s what happens, right? It’s just, that is it.

[00:17:38] Grow My Salon Business: yeah,

[00:17:38] Narad Kutowaroo: that’s what’s amazing is I think like day one always starts a little bit, a bit sheepish, a bit like standoffish maybe. And then the idea is to break all that down so by the end we know

[00:17:49] Narad Kutowaroo: We always say you’re not always gonna get on with everyone. So if you are working with someone that potentially you’re not like, you might be butting heads a little bit, that’s also okay. We’ve been doing it long enough that we can often pick up on that and then we just have to like, you find the people you want to work with.

[00:18:04] Narad Kutowaroo: I think Gary always says it as well, just because you come with someone from your shop or you worked with someone, or that’s your mate, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you work well together.

[00:18:14] Narad Kutowaroo: Do you know what I mean? It is like this idea of just because you’re friends, it’s oh, we better work together.

[00:18:19] Narad Kutowaroo: Sometimes it doesn’t work. You can be the best of mates, but just working together, it doesn’t work. Do you know what I mean? It’s a bit of a clash.

[00:18:25] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah, totally. and there’s a whole nother dynamic backstage in terms of egos

[00:18:31] Grow My Salon Business: Because backstage when it’s a real thing, not just in the class. got the models, the makeup artists, the, whoever’s the lead head person. Obviously you’ve got the designer, there’s a lot of egos and stuff back there as well, isn’t there?

[00:18:47] Grow My Salon Business: So how do you prepare people for that side of things?

[00:18:52] Narad Kutowaroo: The whole thing has been built around to say Gary’s idea initially. So you know, Gary’s come up with this original concept from his own experience. So his main thing was the idea of like, how do you even get on a team? Like for him it was a very long, lengthy process of having to know the right person, trying out to these teams.

[00:19:11] Narad Kutowaroo: Is it good enough? No it’s not. And again, next season sort of thing. For me, like I lean on my own experience. So especially in the way that I lead teams and you know how I like to think I speak to people. It’s all of my own experience of working under different leads myself and knowing how I’ve flourished.

[00:19:32] Narad Kutowaroo: More and in the what environment I work best under.

[00:19:36] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:19:36] Narad Kutowaroo: It is just, that’s all it is. It’s just me leaning on my own experience and giving that out. So I’m always trying to give to people like remembering our models have a job to do they need to be relaxed and feeling confident within what we are giving them so they can then walk that runway and do it to the best of their ability because they already feel empowered and they already feel amazing.

[00:20:01] Narad Kutowaroo: It’s so all of these things also working alongside makeup artists, it’s not a hair show, we’re putting out a fashion show,

[00:20:07] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:20:07] Narad Kutowaroo: so the hair is only gonna be as good as the makeup and the styling. And it is also remembering like at the heart of it, like we are selling clothes.

[00:20:16] Narad Kutowaroo: So the hair is something that this should assist in that vision. So it’s all understanding like it’s not just about us and I need a minute to do my thing.

[00:20:27] Narad Kutowaroo: We’ve all gotta do it. And often when you are backstage you’ll have a nail technician as well. That’s like somewhere on a stool round by your feet.

[00:20:35] Grow My Salon Business: yeah,

[00:20:35] Narad Kutowaroo: You’ve gotta makeup artist there. And as I say, the makeup normally work on their own. But then there’s two of you at least, so already that’s four people surrounding one person who’s been like, pushed and pulled. So it’s. yeah, we just, I just try and give that over. It’s just remembering you know who you are and stuff.

[00:20:53] Narad Kutowaroo: And then, the other big part of it, as I say, it’s if it is something that you are trying to take seriously, so you know, we are giving you that peek behind the curtain. It’s also about, leaving the best impression of yourself out there, because I know speaking, from experience, all of my jobs And, my whole career has been built off one job.

[00:21:15] Narad Kutowaroo: Then the next one and then the next one because of what impression have I left behind? Do you know what I mean? What is my footprint that I’ve left? Someone in that room might remember, oh, do you remember that hair like person, they, were like really sound or they were really kind or like they were really, do you know what I mean?

[00:21:30] Narad Kutowaroo: Like they did amazing hair is always a good one.

[00:21:33] Grow My Salon Business: yeah.

[00:21:34] Narad Kutowaroo: always good to do.

[00:21:35] Grow My Salon Business: and they go, the guy with the name that no one can pronounce.

[00:21:37] Narad Kutowaroo: Absolutely. Yeah. He just nods at whatever.

[00:21:42] Grow My Salon Business: Okay. So if I’m a salon owner and I’m listening to this and I’m thinking, oh, that’d be interesting to, to go on or send my team on, I can imagine there’d be some salon owners that would already have preconceptions about why they should or shouldn’t send their team on a course like this. So let me ask you, from a salon owner’s point of view, what benefit is there for them from sending their team on this course?

[00:22:10] Grow My Salon Business: Like how can it help a salon?

[00:22:13] Narad Kutowaroo: There’s many things, but I think initially what I would like to say is if I was a salon owner, I would always try and say, come and do it yourself first, just so at least because then you can see what it is and then how it would benefit the staff.

[00:22:29] Narad Kutowaroo: Because sometimes I think maybe in my experience again.

[00:22:34] Narad Kutowaroo: Sometimes people get sent and then the business owner still never really truly understands what it is for or what it does. So I think that’s often a good thing. And as I say, we have people with a wealth of experience in the hairdressing industry and it’s definitely not like a trap or a trick to catch out on things you may not be good at or may not know.

[00:22:56] Narad Kutowaroo: Because as I say, we’re all just human, but it’s just a really great opportunity, I think, to just get your teeth into something different. And I think especially if you’ve got a team, it’s nice to see it first, and then you can be like, yeah, this is something that we could use as a tool for our shop. But Yeah.

[00:23:12] Narad Kutowaroo: The big thing, which is important as I say, is. I don’t know like globally, but I know especially like where I live in a town just outside of London and our High street is mainly hairdressers, a few charity shops and you know quite a lot of Italian restaurants as well.

[00:23:29] Narad Kutowaroo: That’s generally the theme and a coffee shop iand it’s like how are you standing out amongst the crowd? What are you like doing differently? So obviously what we can offer you is we can offer you the opportunity to talk about your stylist being the ones that are working, in the fashion capitals around the world.

[00:23:53] Narad Kutowaroo: And for me, that then elevates your services and the skill level of your stylists to potential clients coming off the street.

[00:24:03] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah, definitely. Editorial work was something I dabbled with many years ago and I very quickly realized actually. not a fit for me, it just wasn’t something that I enjoyed that much doing. But one of the things that I really got out of it was the speed element. Because you’re working backstage, like you say, it’s a team and there’s, two or three or four people, sometimes one model.

[00:24:26] Grow My Salon Business: And you simply don’t have long to do their hair. And the juxtaposition of what happens in a salon, you’ll often find that, oh, and this is what I picked up on when you said it’s definitely not a hair up class. In a salon situation you’ll get. Client’s book in, whether it’s for a formal or a wedding or whatever it is, and they need their hair up done, so to speak, and oh, I’ve gotta have at least an hour for that.

[00:24:54] Grow My Salon Business: Sometimes 90 minutes, for one model or bridesmaid or whatever it is but the reality of it is that in fashion week, when you’re backstage, you don’t have that sort of time. You’ve got like a very short amount of time to deliver something of a very high standard. So talk to us.

[00:25:12] Grow My Salon Business: About that side of it in terms of it teaching speed and and being able to cope with pressure because I think that’s a real good benefit to take back to the salon. That you can do something, start to finish and it might only take you 15 minutes, 20 minutes, and it’s done. And next one please.

[00:25:29] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah. certainly. That is a big takeaway that we’ve had from people that have done the course previously is not only is it the service time can increase so it can get quicker, but it’s also in those times when you have. And it does happen. You may get double booked or you’ve overrun, so now you’ve got two clients in this, in the salon.

[00:25:49] Narad Kutowaroo: At the same time, the feedback we’ve understood is that they’re way more equipped to deal with those situations. Instead of it now becoming like all panic stations,

[00:25:59] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:26:00] Narad Kutowaroo: okay, how can I, work through this problem because. That’s what we are as session stylists really is we’re problem solvers.

[00:26:10] Narad Kutowaroo: We just get from A to B in the most efficient way.

[00:26:14] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:26:14] Narad Kutowaroo: And then as far as like being able to do the hairstyle or whatever in a quick way. So that’s what we cover in our sort of bootcamp. And as I say, the class kind of extends through fashion week because every show is different.

[00:26:27] Narad Kutowaroo: So every hairstyle, there’s often, sometimes you’ll see a theme each season, so you might see some recurring techniques that we’ve used. But every time because of who the model is, we’ve got all hair textures, we’ve got all different hair types. So every time where even if you’re doing the same look on, across two different heads of hair, you might approach it in two different ways.

[00:26:52] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:26:52] Narad Kutowaroo: what we teach is often how to, how certain products may assist you in reducing time and the speed of like how you may attack. A hair up, if, as it were.

[00:27:05] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Yeah. got it. So instead of, I hate coming back to that same point. I’ve got of still wanting to mention that it’s not a hair up class, it’s more about styling and finishing hair. Would that be a better way to describe it?

[00:27:19] Grow My Salon Business: With here

[00:27:20] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah. definitely. I feel like a big part of it is just how you handle hair,

[00:27:25] Narad Kutowaroo: Because I think sometimes that’s often. Something we not actually having control over what you’re doing. So whether that comes down to when you’re trying to do a ponytail The age old thing is you’re like brushing it and then you get it good and then this bit falls down and then you grab it up again and then now that bit’s gone and it’s oh, I’m getting so frustrating.

[00:27:44] Narad Kutowaroo: So it is trying to understand how do we stop that from happening? Like how are we able to use our hands and our tools So we look at, all our hair brushes and our combs and like certain things that are gonna assist you even more. But it’s also understanding about, just breaking stuff down.

[00:27:59] Narad Kutowaroo: Like for me, everything I teach is really basic. I’m not trying to make myself sound like, rubbish, but it is just coming back to the A, B, C, it’s all like stuff. Every time I say it, it’s like it’s not, it’s just we get so our brains just get so hyper about like things we get so confused.

[00:28:19] Narad Kutowaroo: We confuse ourselves and we miss like the, oh Yeah. Of course it’s that. Do you know what I mean? So it’s like trying to like, just take a breath. I’m always saying, take a breath. Just take a breath. Then we go for it. Because it’s like I say, especially if your, maybe, hair up isn’t your thing and then now you look in your column and it’s oh no, I’ve got four o’clock.

[00:28:39] Narad Kutowaroo: I’ve got that woman. So all day you’re like, oh God. And then she comes in and then you’ve potentially doing something that you don’t even want to do, but you’re just going through some motions because it feels like, you will learn out of this, you know about how to like.

[00:28:54] Narad Kutowaroo: Take a breath, understand. What am I setting out to do here? How am I gonna get there? And it’s just breaking everything down into these like simple steps so that you can do it. And as I say, there’ll be lots of different things that you pick up and every show and every model you do, there’ll be a little thing that you go, oh Yeah.

[00:29:11] Narad Kutowaroo: that was interesting, why I did that instead of that way.

[00:29:15] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Yeah. Do you, as the lead hairdresser, do you meet with the designer? Before the show, like I’m talking weeks before the show to talk about, the look and feel that they want to go for, and that’s your brief with the designer and then you go away and think, okay, I’m gonna do this type of hair for that show.

[00:29:35] Grow My Salon Business: So you narrow it down to, a couple of different looks or whatever. What I’m then asking you is, are they then the looks that you teach on the bootcamp.

[00:29:45] Narad Kutowaroo: So it really depends. Sometimes we are very blessed and lucky that we do get, a few days lead ahead of the show. So we have our, the fitting and the the hair test. So we get to go to the studio or whatever, meet with the designer, we have a fit model and we can try some things out.

[00:30:05] Narad Kutowaroo: They may show us their inspiration. We also may have an input on what ideas we have. And then and there, hopefully we come out with our finished look that we’re gonna then do. But as I say, also that then is how does that translate for all models?

[00:30:22] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:30:22] Narad Kutowaroo: So is whether the hair is long, short, say different textures, different hair types.

[00:30:26] Narad Kutowaroo: So you have to then consider, what this feeling or mood is and how does that fit amongst everyone.

[00:30:33] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:30:34] Narad Kutowaroo: So sometimes I say we’ve been blessed enough to get that. Before a, before the class, or even it might be day one of the class, say, this happens in New York all the time, we’re teaching the class, coming to the end of the day, I’ve gotta shoot off to wherever, Brooklyn or whatever, and do a hair test.

[00:30:52] Narad Kutowaroo: But then that means that night I’ve come home and then the next day two, I can be like, so tomorrow we’ve got this show. Let’s go through this look. So we can cover all of that. But in saying that, sometimes we don’t get that luxury. And some of the shows that we do, it might be that we are, have multiple designers walking in the same day, in the same venue.

[00:31:14] Narad Kutowaroo: And a lot of the time on that is literally a sort of, I turn up and I’m just given, this is one, this is book two, this is three, this is four. So then I have to. Break it all down and understand like how we’re gonna attack it and how I’m gonna get the team to attack it.

[00:31:30] Grow My Salon Business: sure.

[00:31:31] Narad Kutowaroo: this is where the things that we cover in the class, that’s what we really try and think about because the skills that we teach in the class, they can be elements of, a hairstyle.

[00:31:44] Narad Kutowaroo: So it’s like we are gonna approach step one as this and we’re gonna use this technique that we did.

[00:31:50] Narad Kutowaroo: There’ll be people that go, oh yeah, that, that technique, I was really good at doing that in the class. But then there might be people that go, oh no, it’s that one that I really struggled with.

[00:31:58] Narad Kutowaroo: So then in your pair you’ll be like here you go. You lead this one and I’m gonna be more ready with the tools and the hairspray and that.

[00:32:05] Grow My Salon Business: sure.

[00:32:05] Narad Kutowaroo: So that’s the team element coming into play already. But so Yeah, so that’s where we try and that’s what we’re trying to cover in the class is these things that you definitely a hundred percent will use in some form at Fashion Week.

[00:32:18] Grow My Salon Business: Okay. It must be interesting, like you mentioned. The first morning of the class, people come in and they’re all sizing each other up a little bit and feeling a bit uncomfortable, a bit nervous about what’s gonna happen here. Then at the end of two days, they’re completely, they feel a lot more comfortable and then they actually, you guarantee them, don’t you?

[00:32:38] Grow My Salon Business: You guarantee them that they can work backstage at fashion week. And so what I suppose I’m getting to is about the motivation aspect of this. By the end of show day they must be pretty pumped. A lot of them must have been like really excited that, oh my gosh, I started off as a hairdresser working in a salon and I’m still doing that and loving every moment of it.

[00:33:00] Grow My Salon Business: But this has been an incredibly good experience. They must feel really motivated about what they do, so it talk to us a little bit about that.

[00:33:07] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah. so I mean it’s initially, I think, yeah, the end of the two days of the class, especially at the end of the fashion week, we have these new. WhatsApp groups of new best mates, Because we’ve all achieved this thing together, which is amazing. Also what’s really nice is when we do get a lot of people that return speaking to some of them it’s I know when I did it first time I was a bit more reserved.

[00:33:32] Narad Kutowaroo: So I was very much happier just, having the pins and the hairspray and being more of an assistant style. Person. And then when they return, they’re like I’m gonna put myself out there a bit more and maybe push a bit more to like actually do some hair, which is great because that’s all about the growth.

[00:33:49] Narad Kutowaroo: And like we even see it ourselves in like the personalities that we get. You can get some people that are so quiet and reserved initially, and then by the end, because they found this thing that they’ve, didn’t know existed or didn’t know it was a thing. They’re now they come out of their shell a bit more, or they’re now like really thriving in that environment.

[00:34:12] Narad Kutowaroo: someone that came last on the last course and the feedback from them was that it’s really, they’re a salon owner themselves, and it said that it’s reignited their passion for hair.

[00:34:22] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:34:23] Narad Kutowaroo: And I think like things like that are, you can’t really ignore that. that’s what’s really cool about it because I’m only giving what I know and from my own experience. But if that’s like what it can actually do for some people that are, so bogged down with the.

[00:34:38] Narad Kutowaroo: Humdrum day-to-day running of a business and just feeling like they’re just a bit stuck or maybe this isn’t what I set out to do. And then you can give them this opportunity that is now reignite and their, like actual, the reason why they started it, because when we were all assistants, we didn’t do it for money because you don’t get paid anything.

[00:34:59] Narad Kutowaroo: So it’s really good to reconnect with that side of it. Do you know what I mean? Like

[00:35:03] Grow My Salon Business: interesting. Yeah.

[00:35:03] Narad Kutowaroo: The passion, I think.

[00:35:05] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. No, definitely. Good. Okay. who are other people that attend? Do they tend to be employees that work in a salon, or do you get people that are self-employed stylists? Is it the, or is it a mix of the two? Because in today’s world, there are so many self-employed stylists out there.

[00:35:23] Grow My Salon Business: Obviously they don’t get paid to be doing this. It’s like experience or, and they’ve gotta pay to be there to go to the bootcamp, et cetera. So what does that mix look like?

[00:35:33] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah.

[00:35:33] Narad Kutowaroo: it’s a real mixed bag. Someone like myself, there’s a lot of self-employed people that that come and a lot of their drive and motivation is purely to be around other hairdressers again, because a lot of them have come, had a previous existence in the salon.

[00:35:49] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:35:49] Narad Kutowaroo: know, like when I left the salon many years ago now, but that was always my fear was that like, now I’m only.

[00:35:56] Narad Kutowaroo: I’m my only guide on, what’s good. I haven’t got like a checker next to me to be like, oh no, I need to like up this, or be better at that. It’s just you, I think the worry is that you can just settle into this like me, a mediocrity of just doing things. So a lot of people come and they meet.

[00:36:15] Narad Kutowaroo: Other like-minded people, do you know what I mean? They’ve now Got this network of people that they can, talk to and we’re all doing fashion week, so we’re getting a glimpse at, what is cool, what’s the new trends like, what are people gonna be wanting next year? What are people gonna be?

[00:36:29] Narad Kutowaroo: ’cause it? all waters down from the runway, you know? so like so you get a lot of self-employed people that come. For skills, but also for the comradery of it all. And then you do get people that come from salons as well. And for many different reasons. I think, there’s a couple of examples of people that came.

[00:36:48] Narad Kutowaroo: One was actually a salon stylist and one was self-employed. They were looking at, who their clients are. So the clients that they do, and they were very like glamorous, like young women with money. So they were very smart. They came and did our initial class in Readding, but then they took themselves off and did the Miami Swim Week.

[00:37:11] Narad Kutowaroo: So that whole look there is like a more glamorous sort of it fits with who their client is.

[00:37:16] Grow My Salon Business: yep.

[00:37:17] Narad Kutowaroo: it’s a very smart approach because then they were able to obviously use all the imagery from those shows and use that for their own. Publicity and their own advertising. So now the images now fit who they’re trying to attract

[00:37:35] Grow My Salon Business: Got it. Yeah.

[00:37:36] Narad Kutowaroo: on the best stage that they could possibly do it at.

[00:37:40] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:37:42] Narad Kutowaroo: It’s a very, it is just a smart way of working. And likewise, that’s what I mean. I think that’s how you should be approaching it. If you’re coming, as I say, one, it should be that you’re interested, but then if you want to think about it a bit harder, how will this benefit me? What is the most I can get out of it?

[00:37:56] Narad Kutowaroo: Because we always push to salon owners and stuff about, press releases and stuff after the event, before the event, and during the event in the runup to it. If you have your salon, you could be told to your local press about, oh, how exciting. Our ex member of staff or our team are gonna be at London Fashion Week, or wherever in the world working backstage.

[00:38:22] Narad Kutowaroo: And then, during fashion week, you’ll be able to talk about that yourself on your own, social media things. Again, your local press outlet might be interested to know that you are there.

[00:38:31] Grow My Salon Business: Sure.

[00:38:31] Narad Kutowaroo: then obviously afterwards you can then call back to it like, the, here are the images from whatever fashion week you did.

[00:38:39] Narad Kutowaroo: It’s just all about, I think there’s, because there’s so many different things to do within it, there’s something for everyone to take

[00:38:47] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. What would you say biggest misunderstanding or the biggest fallacy is that young hairdressers have about doing editorial work, session work, backstage work, however want to define it. What would you say that was?

[00:39:03] Narad Kutowaroo: just generally in the sort of, in that world. Yeah. Probably initially that you’re gonna be a millionaire because

[00:39:10] Grow My Salon Business: Good luck with that

[00:39:11] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah.

[00:39:13] Narad Kutowaroo: I think people often get a bit even with me I’m still doing days of work for nothing, just because the love of it, the reason of, meeting different people and like the potential of potential work afterwards.

[00:39:25] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah.

[00:39:25] Narad Kutowaroo: it’s not, you do get some incredible jobs and incredible experiences out of it, but I think the initial thing is that if you’re doing it for cash, it’s probably not it.

[00:39:34] Narad Kutowaroo: So that’s one. But as I say, you totally can get paid well, but it’s just it’s not that every day is like a big pay day.

[00:39:40] Narad Kutowaroo: It is definitely not. And it’s the reinvestment that you are continually doing. Do you know what I mean? It’s all the things that I’m continually getting to be able to do my job is a quite a never ending list. So there’s that. And then I also think it’s the idea of, I said about it earlier, it’s the eye of what you’re looking at.

[00:40:00] Narad Kutowaroo: And this is a big learning thing for me because I came from a salon background and I was given a. An opportunity to work with a band that I did straight outta the Salon. And I was thrown into this world of doing all these shoots and like music videos and stuff like that.

[00:40:20] Narad Kutowaroo: And I did it, I was thinking on my feet really. And it took me like a bit of time for the penny to drop of like how, what I was seeing and what I thought I was trying to achieve were two. Different things. So like for me, often it’s like the imperfection is kind of more the perfection in it.

[00:40:42] Narad Kutowaroo: That might sound like waffle,

[00:40:43] Grow My Salon Business: It doesn’t sound like waffle at all. I understand what you mean. There’s even a word for that. The Japanese have a word for that. ’cause it’s a. It’s a thing. Do you know what I mean? The uh, and if I say the Japanese word, I’ll

[00:40:54] Narad Kutowaroo: go on.

[00:40:54] Grow My Salon Business: doubt. Oh, no doubt. Get it, get it, Get it wrong. And someone will tell me you’ve got that one wrong.

[00:41:01] Grow My Salon Business: But anyway yeah, no, look, I get that. I was just reflecting back on who is a good, who’s, who is suited to this type of work, as much as who is not suited to it. Because a lot of hairdressers are. in their own mind to be really suited and be good at this.

[00:41:23] Grow My Salon Business: It’s actually very much about being part of a team and understanding that you are not the most important person in the room and that you have to fit in with the team. And that thing you said before is it’s not a hair show. It’s like you’re doing the hair for something else. Whether it’s about fashion or potentially, I was just watching, I dunno if you’ve seen Mary Antoinette but the hair on it was just amazing

[00:41:52] Grow My Salon Business: . It was like just Incredible hair. I just couldn’t stop looking at how good her hair was. It was quite amazing. But generally speaking, it’s not like that. It’s, I think you referred to it as. And didn’t say accessorize, but the hair is almost an accessory to the fashion.

[00:42:07] Grow My Salon Business: It’s to complete the

[00:42:08] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah.

[00:42:09] Grow My Salon Business: thing, isn’t it? Yeah,

[00:42:11] Narad Kutowaroo: so I mean there’s often, there’s, there’s some iconic shows that you can reference where their hair was obviously a bigger part of the story to tell.

[00:42:18] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:42:19] Narad Kutowaroo: But as I say, that’s obviously within that process of coming to that is come from the designer. So then the lead up onto that is gonna be like way more and Yeah that, so that’s obviously with that, but a lot of the time.

[00:42:33] Narad Kutowaroo: My experience is that, because we’re selling clothes, sometimes why do you see so many ponytails or so many buns, is to get like a silhouette where it’s basically we’ve just left with a mannequin effectively, and so the destruction isn’t from the hair. So that’s then our job to make it something that it is, it has an interest, but it’s not like detracting from what you’re actually trying to sell.

[00:43:00] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Got it.

[00:43:01] Narad Kutowaroo: but yeah, I think you’re saying about, who is it designed for? I think you just, you need to be able to be a good student when you’re there, because as I say, this is for people that, have always wanted it or have always wondered about it. So if you have an interest in it.

[00:43:19] Narad Kutowaroo: This is who it’s for. But then in, in order for me to try and help you as much as I can in the initial two days, and then over the week you, I always just say it’s just, eyes and ears. Just keep both of them open

[00:43:31] Narad Kutowaroo: And then we’re gonna, we’re gonna do quite well

[00:43:33] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:43:34] Narad Kutowaroo: that’s often, that’s what we see.

[00:43:35] Narad Kutowaroo: As I say that, that doesn’t mean anything about an experience within the industry. That’s just more about a personality trait. I think if you are teachable and coachable,

[00:43:46] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah.

[00:43:47] Narad Kutowaroo: as I say, you can have all the experience or you could have little to none, but if you’re willing to take the information on board, that’s when, that’s where we’re gonna go a long way.

[00:43:57] Grow My Salon Business: Exactly and that is the perfect place to start wrapping up. But yeah I love what you just said then. It’s, it’s being, having that willingness to learn and sometimes not having experience is actually a good thing because you are an open slate, so to speak, a blank slate. Where can people find out more about this?

[00:44:16] Grow My Salon Business: If someone’s listening to this no matter where they are and they’re thinking, gosh, I’d love to do that. Where would you point them towards?

[00:44:22] Narad Kutowaroo: So the Unite website has all the information on all the classes that are available. So that’s globally, but specifically in the UK it would be Unite UK website. And that is all run via Lacey’s in Reading. Both of those places are good places to start. And then also. All the social media channels that are to do with Unite as well some would also answer off the back of that and failing that, I’m always there as well.

[00:44:47] Narad Kutowaroo: If you needed to reach out to me,

[00:44:49] Narad Kutowaroo: I try and always get back to you too, or at least point you in the right direction.

[00:44:53] Grow My Salon Business: Okay so where can people connect with you on Instagram or other social media channels?

[00:44:59] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah, so I’m mainly on Instagram, so it’s just my own handle my name, which is really easy to pronounce.

[00:45:05] Grow My Salon Business: Yeah. Okay. Listen, I will put your name, your Instagram handle in the show notes of today’s podcast. So if you’re listening to this and you wanna find out more, I’ll put those links for Unite. In the UK and the US and anywhere else that Narad wants me to include in that. And I’ll put Instagram handle on there so you can connect directly with him.

[00:45:29] Grow My Salon Business: And I’ll also put a link for a podcast interview I did. I’m not sure what year it was now, but it might have been two or three years ago with Andrew Dale, who is the founder of unite. And I used to work with him. As when he was a hairdresser standing behind the chair at Sassoon’s in the early eighties, he was in the first salon that I worked in.

[00:45:49] Grow My Salon Business: He was a little bit ahead of me, a year or so as a stylist. It’s interesting to see what an amazing career he’s had and what a huge success. He’s turned the Unite brand into. I’ll put the link for that podcast that I did with him, in the show notes as well, because it’s very interesting tracking his story from, hairdresser to now being the founder of a very significant brand in the world of haircare.

[00:46:16] Grow My Salon Business: If you’re listening to this podcast with Narad and you’ve enjoyed it, do me a favour and share it with people that you know would also enjoy it. And don’t forget to subscribe and leave us a rating and review on the Apple Podcast app. So to wrap up, Narad Kutowaroo

[00:46:31] Narad Kutowaroo: Wow.

[00:46:31] Grow My Salon Business: Thank you for being on the Grow My Sell on Business podcast this week.

[00:46:36] Narad Kutowaroo: Yeah. Thank you so much.

[00:46:38] Grow My Salon Business: My pleasure. It’s been great. Really enjoyed it.