– Episode 027Traci Sakosits

Episode 027: Transcript

Welcome to the grow my salon business podcast where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I’m your host Antony Whitaker, and I’ll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired. And most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.

I’m sure that like me. You get inspired by people for lots of different reasons. Sometimes it might be because of what they’ve achieved. Other times it may be the journey that they’ve had to get there, or maybe they’ve handled adversity and overcome some challenges and you find that inspiring. Or maybe you get inspired by how they think, how they think about people and they think about life and how they think about hairdressing. Today’s guest is someone who inspires me not only by what she does with hair, but with how she thinks about hair and hairdressing and her commitment to the craft. She has a passion and a curiosity about people and the craft of hairdressing that I find inspiring to listen to. So on today’s podcast, amongst other things, we’re going to talk about our people and businesses evolve. What you need to do to lead a team effectively, what young people expect today and how do you lead and motivate them and how do you balance life as a leader, a teacher, a mum and a wife and lots more as well. So welcome to my guest today, North American creative director of the Sassoon salons and academies. Tracy Sakosits, welcome to the show Tracy.

Ah, what a lovely intro, I have a lot to step up to. Thank you Antony. And I’m so excited to have some time with you and conversation.

Well, it’s great. I love these opportunities to sort of ask those questions with people and you know, really sort of dig into, as I said in the intro how they think and there’s something about doing it on a podcast that really makes people, you know, dig a little bit deeper. And so I value these opportunities and I’m really looking forward to hearing what you’ve got to say today. So can I suggest, that, let’s start off with an overview of what your background is. I mean, you know, most of my audience are probably familiar with your name. You know, who is Traci Sakosits give us your backstory, how you got into the industry, you know, your journey and where you currently are. So the floor is yours over to you?

Sure, sure. Oh gosh. Where to start, I guess. I’ve had a long, wonderful career and right from the beginning it was amazing. I started in hairdressing because my mom had three sisters, seven sisters and three of them did hairdressing. So when I was growing up, there was one of her sisters I was very, very close with and admired and just follow it around all the time. And she was a hairdresser and so she was kind of the coolest person. I knew when I was growing up, when I was in high school and growning up as a teenager, I just wanted to, wear would she wore driver car and go where she went. And she was a hairdresser. So when it, when I thought about what I wanted to do, I wanted to be like her.

I love that.

That’s where it started.

You know, one of the things that you often hear people talk about today is you know the image of hairdressing and that it’s maybe not what it used to be. And sometimes you hear people talk about the self esteem of hairdressers and I, you know, I love you saying, you know, that like your auntie was the coolest person you knew and you just wanted to be her. And I, I think that’s great that hairdressers you know, sort of set those examples to young people and that young people look at us and, and aspire to be us and live our life and do what we do. But enough of me carry on. Let’s hear, like what came after that?

Well I started, I started hair with her. She had a salon. She had a few amazing salons. I grew up in New Jersey and she had a salon in New Jersey that was very successful. Very cool. You know, again, the word cool I think was, was what I always thought at the time. I wanted to be there, I wanted to hang out with her friends and work there. And so I went there all the time and I went to beauty school in New Jersey. I’m not sure I really knew what it was to be a hairdresser. I just wanted to be like her, like I said. So I was fortunate enough to go and work in her salon and she entrusted me with everything. Five years I was with her five or six years, learning what hairdressing was, what the salon business was. How to deal with people, you know, in the service industry. And I guess at some point I realized who I was within that and what I wanted. And I really loved cutting hair, but it was very frustrating at the same time because I could see what I wanted to do, but I couldn’t quite get there in an efficient manner.

So, what era are we talking about? What year or what decade?

Well I’ll put it to you this way. I’ve been with Saasoons this year it’s 28 years I’ll let everybody do some work. And I was with her for five or six years prior to that.

Right. Okay. Alright, good.

And so it’s been some time. Yeah. And so thankfully, you know, she, she’s a very caring, giving woman and she said, you know, if you want to learn how to cut hair and do great at cutting hair, go to Sassoon. So I always remember that because she could have easily said, I’ll teach you. And you know, at that point I was helping her run her salon. You know, second, you know, to help her do that, you know, do her role. So I helped her a lot. So she was, she was one of those people that was giving and nurturing to others and thought of me first and said, well, so over there, and literally pointed out the window, we were in on the right, on the river of New Jersey, pointed out the river. It’s like go over there pointed to New York city and that’s where I started with Sassoon. I remember that moment when she said go to Sassoon and then literally pointed her finger along the river at the big, big city, you know? Yeah. Life changing. Absolutely.

So, so you rock up, apply for a job and they go, we’ve been waiting for you. Wasn’t it quite like that. It wasn’t like that for me either.

No, I remember what I wore that first day on my interview. I absolutely, and I don’t know why. I think now it’s kind of, I thought about it and thought, what was I thinking? You know, when you think back, I don’t have a lot of those, but that was one of them. What were you thinking? But yeah, I did get the job and I started in New York city and it was one of our largest salons, one of the original salons. So there was bond street, Beverly Hills and New York city. And so I worked there we were in the general motors building on fifth Avenue and we had a huge staff. It was the days of large salons, big salons with large teams. And I think that was the best way to start in the career with Sassoon.

Yeah, I would agree with that.

And I’m still very close to some of those people that, that were there then and are still around and not, not necessarily in that location, but yeah.

Yeah. So that was in New York and then eventually, and so New York was very much working in a salon, Sassoon salon and then eventually what drew you to teaching because you’ve ended up on the, on the West coast in LA, which is sort of head office, for the schools, et cetera. So, so tell us about how that transition happened.

Yeah, so from the salon realizing I wanted to, to cut hair, you know, I have a fascination with how things work and how to make things work. And I don’t like to just do things. I like to be able to, know that I have control to get an end result. And I liked it. I’m fascinated by things and how they operate. So I think when I went to Sassoon and the, and the first class day I realized, Oh my gosh, somebody gave me the why’s and how’s to do something. And with practice I can do it that level, you know, their level. When I realized that I was absolutely hooked and I did at that time it was two years apprenticeship. I worked with some amazing people that are all successful. We were, there was like five or six of us in New York city that were assistants from day one to when we qualified together. I’m still friends with all of those people and they’re all successful. We will all see each other and work similar levels in the industry as well, which is pretty fascinating. None of them are, with Sassoon still except for me. But like I said, they’re all successful in their ways doing things their way.

Good, good.

That’s amazing. I think.

No, I don’t think so. I mean, you know, it’s, it’s, I have a similar background. And all over the world you find great salons and all over the world you find people that have that Sassoon pedigree, you know, that heritage that they work there for X years and now they’ve gone on to do other things and successful in their own right. And I love what you were saying about the you know, the how and the why, because, you know, just like you, that was my journey, you know, to, I was a hairdresser already. I went to Sassoon, I went to London in 1980 and, you know, I thought I sort of knew how to cut hair. I knew I wasn’t as good as what I wanted to be, but I thought I knew what I needed to know. And it’s interesting how, you know, when you start too, get into that whole Sassoon ethos, your best, your almost best to know nothing before you get there because you realize that you’ve probably come into it with a lot of bad habits and a lot of misinformation.

And, and I think that, you know, here we are 65 years after Sassoon started and what have they done as a company, you know, that they have made, they have stripped all the bullshit out of how you cut hair basically haven’t they? It’s like the fundamentals and the discipline and the, this is how you do it that Purist technique and yeah, I just absolutely loved that. And once you have that understanding and that discipline to do it, it’s the greatest start point I think there is for any hairdresser regardless of how you then evolve those skills even into other styles of doing hair as your journey takes you elsewhere.

Yeah, its foundational, foundational. That’s absolutely what it is. And not just technique and hair. But I think professionalism, you know, so the, the I learned in New York was that there was an understanding and way to create a standard and quality in hair there’s away that you act and behave and, and that same level match the hair in a salon environment. And all the wonderful things that link to it too. Not the disciplines, but all the wonderful things that inspire those, those things as well as like fashion and music. I mean, I learned so much at that time about fashion and music in that time. That’s when I really kind of fell in love with all the themes that surround us around hair and the inspirational pieces. So it was a time in my life that I grew so much in so many different ways and I knew it was only the beginning.

You know, I knew it was only the beginning and I still didn’t really know what I was getting myself into. I just knew I loved every day. Every day. And I guess by the end of it you know, towards the end of my training, you think, okay, next level, next transition. And I love the people that taught me. And there was one gentleman there was a couple of creative directors. It was a big salon. So we had two or three creative directors at any one time and all different in their ways. So one told you this way, one told you that way, one operated this way one operated the other way and you, if you were smart, you just picked up all the best assets and made them yours, you know, so you became a well rounded person and that was always my advice for all the other assistants too.

I’m like, don’t complain about that. He’s amazing at this. Do that, you know, pick that up over that one. Pick that one. And so, but one of them was, was originally a teacher and Vernon Keach and he was quite an eccentric person in the salon. He did hair in just his way, but with the highest standard. He worked with his clients in, in the perfect manner and it was super disciplined. And his background was originally teaching before he was in New York. And so he was really the one that inspired me. I think I wanted to, to run before I could walk. So as soon as I was done training as an assistant and qualified, I wanted to teach, so, that was my direction was pointed towards Los Angeles then because this was the only full Academy. But when I got here, the opportunity and the door that was open was to work in our Beverly Hills salon.

So my initial move to Los Angeles was going and working in our Beverly Hills salon for about two years. And there I built a clientele and I worked under a great creative director and follow it on a leadership path myself and became the assistant creative director of Beverly Hills. And when I think now, I mean I really wanted to come into the Academy and I wanted to do that straight away, but I’m so I realised how valuable the time that I had in this salon was to understanding people, understanding how the Sassoon, you know, all the things I learned as an apprentice, how it works and how I could build myself a clientele with it. Because when you’re in the Academy, as a teacher, it’s not just teaching people, especially this Academy that I’m in now where cosmetology, so beginners as well as advanced. And you know, as a teacher we have to be well rounded, you know, self-promotion piece, people skills, how to build a clientele, not just how to cut hair, you know, or color hair. And so I think those two years that I spent in Beverly Hills more than anything, taught me how it, all those things work together. And so that was, that was an amazing time. So every, every opportunity that I had that I stepped into, I didn’t necessarily plan. And, those, that time period was so valuable for me and I realize that now, you know?

Yeah. It’s all part of a journey, isn’t it? You know, again, you know, there’s that expression, I forget exactly what the expression is now, but it’s one of those things that I know I experienced it when I was teaching people to cut hair was that you thought because you were good at cutting hair, that you’d be able to teach people how to do it. And then when the words have to come out of your mouth to explain why you do what you do, it’s a different skill again. And so it makes you really focus even at a deeper level to, well, why do I do what I do? Because you then have to understand it and articulate it to someone else and in the best possible manner. And that’s not something that everyone can do well. But obviously it’s, you know, it’s a skill that you develop, but I suppose the message is, it’s not something that you do in five minutes. It’s a skill that you develop and you honed over the years of working with other people.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

So fast forward to today. I alluded to the fact a minute ago that, you know, Sassoon has been around I think this is, it is this year, the 65th year.

Yeah. October at Salon international. We celebrated 65 years of Sassoon first salon opening on bond street. Yeah.

So that’s, you know, a long time ago and a lot for any business hairdressing or not. It’s important that if you want to evolve that there are certain things that happen. I suppose the main thing that needs to happen is it needs to be chang because if businesses don’t change and evolve, they simply don’t survive. So, you know the fact that Sassoon is still there and still strong and still iconic in the hairdressing industry is obviously because it has evolved and they do embrace change. But, you know, it’s a long time since I worked there. So, you know what’s, well, it’s happening at Sassoon today. I mean, I know there’s been, you know, a change of ownership recently, et cetera. So can you talk a little bit about, you know, where the company’s at today and what direction it’s moving in?

Yeah, sure. I, well, I mean I think to touch on what, what your intro was to this Sassoon, I think it’s always been and still is about the people you know about the team and Sassoon has been creatively led by some of the most amazing people in it’s time and still is, you know, Mark Hayes is currently the international creative director in has been and he’s amazing. And I think a company or a brand having being led creatively at its core, I think that’s Sassoons success and that’s what’s helped It last the length of time. I also think, I think that there’s constant change with Sassoon that maybe a lot of people don’t think about, but Sassoon is right or wrong a stepping stone for most hairdressers. You read any bio of anyone out there and they’re going to reference as soon, whether it be the man, the salons, the education they want to have a relationship with Sassoon.

Yeah. And so I think the dynamics when people change, when everybody thinks it’s, it’s, you know, when someone leaves, then it’s a negative thing. But that’s an opportunity for a new energy to come in. Yeah, exactly. And that’s a positive thing and that constantly happens at Sassoon You know, it’s not so great necessarily on a regular basis in a salon, but that does happen in salons and everyone salons including Sassoon, but more importantly Sassoon, no have any educational component to it as a brands. That’s where the, the dynamic and change of influx of people happens every single day. We have a new group of advanced students every single week, a new group of hairdressers that walk in our door and spend some time here. We have cosmetology that’s 10 months, every 10 months. We have a new group students that come in as a beginner. We have, I mean, even now I teach one day courses. So I have somebody that I’ll come in and be here for a day. And then we have our team that’ll come here and want to teach and be part of teaching. And then they develop into something else and they move on. So I think for me it’s that dynamic that is really keeping Sassoon changing and modern and, and lasted the length of time. Yeah it’s the people, you know, the people.

Yeah, exactly. So, you know, one of the things that’s very prevalent in particularly in the United States at the moment, is this, this evolving ever evolving business model of you know, I often refer to it as a business unit of one. So whether you’re talking about booth rental, rent a chair, or in the U S a lot of salon suites, how has that impacted on, or has it had an impact at all on the Sassoon business model, particularly in the United States?

Yeah, and particularly in California. I think for a educationally, I think people need us more need Sassoon more. Yeah. You know maybe not just to raise their level, but to be in the middle of a group of people that are like minded. So they come here just as a refill, you know, cause when you’re on your own your clients do that. Our clients I think could do that, can keep us inspired and refreshed, but you’re also giving a lot as a hairdresser. So working alone, I think you need to somehow be around other people to keep you going outside of your environment. So the Academy I think has done really well, particularly, you know, our ABC course, which is our, our foundational course. That one’s busy every week, all year rounds and it’s people new into the industry and people that are self employed at every level. And so I think for me, I think there’s that, I couldn’t imagine working that way. And I guess that’s why I’m where I am. I love working with a team of people I love. I love what you get from that. I love how it is constantly inspirational, constantly challenging, constantly opportunistic, all those things. I would hate to, I personally, I would hate to work on my own.

Yeah. No, I’m with you. I mean I love building teams. I love being part of the team. I love that energy that you get from, you know, a team of people working together and the, you know, the opportunities and the, you know, the energy creativity that sort of comes with that. But it’s interesting how it’s not for any everybody and you know, new generations and new technology available to them and, and a new business models presented to them. You know, that is having a massive impact on, you know, on the hairdressing business model.

It is, it’s changing it, it’s changing it I think. I think really, you know, why it’s so popular, I think it speaks to flexibility is, you know, younger people or people in general now want to have more flexible schedules and want to make their own schedules. And I think it speaks more to that then working on your own.

Yeah, I think that’s the key word that that comes up again and again and again. When I talk to salon owners and they talk about, you know, this generation is that, you know, the number one thing that motivates them is, you know, control. It’s flexibility, you know, the hours they work, when they work, what they do, you know, how they do it, et cetera. So within the Sassoon salons, have they. Have they become more flexible and that sort of approach to the hours and stuff that people work?

Yeah, I, yeah. I mean, we have to be, yeah, absolutely. That you have to be, I mean, if you have a great person and they want to work four days because they want to be with, spend more time with their family, that’s amazing.

Yeah.

That’s amazing. Or they want to go and take a class too, be more enlightened about a subject matter. All that is going to do is bring more to the table. Yeah. When they’re, when they aren’t there, you know, I guess it’s how it’s done that makes or breaks it, you know, if they’re responsible, respectable, showing up when they’re supposed to do at both ends, you know, wherever the other place may be. But obviously at Sassoon we want Sassoon, you know, we want our team to work only with our team, but to have a flexible schedule to do things that enhance their life. I encourage that. Yeah, definitely.

Definitely. So you said you’ve been in the industry 28 years or at Sassoon 28 years. So, you know

This year, this year will be 28 years. I think.

Congratulations on that one. 28 years You’ve sort of seen different generations work with generations, you know, the generation of the baby boomers to the millennials to, you know, now generation Z. How is the company or how do you, how to people in a salon situation, how, how have they adapted to those different needs of today’s generations? I mean, you talked about flexibility a minute ago in terms of scheduling. what other examples have you got that, that make for a, you know, a modern, contemporary workplace to attract and keep good people working for you?

But I mean, there’s all the systems in place. I think Antony isn’t there. Technology, online bookings you know, access to everything digitally. All the materials digitally, all those things, you know, I think you have to have now as a brand. But I think still at the core, I always go back to people and at the core, whatever generation we’re all human and have feelings and emotions and wants and needs. But I think for me, most importantly is for now you have to really understand the individual that’s in front of you. That’s a success of keeping them, you know, and not saying, well, we have this training program we’re this brand we’re this salon, this is our ethos. And you fit into that.

Yeah. And it’s that. Yeah. Well what worked before doesn’t work today. It’s like tell someone who cares, isn’t it? You know? And that’s leadership, what you’re talking about. To be able to, you know, to, to be flexible in your approach to people and to be able to sort of reinvent things because just because it was done a certain way 10 years ago doesn’t mean that’s the best way to do it now. So for you as a leader of other people you know, in the salons in the schools what are some of the attributes of a strong leader, a team leader? What are some of the things that, you know, the salon owner listening to this out there and no matter where they are, whether they got a team of five people, two people, or 50 people, what are some of the things that they should focus on to become better leaders?

I think, like we just said, really, really understanding who the individual is in front of you. And always having that at the front. Fair, Consistent. I think those are really key things is if you have a lot of different people in front of you, You have to almost be more consistent and fair than ever. So they don’t acknowledge differences because one might need this little bit more of training than another and one might need more of something else. Then the next one. And so when you, what I have found, and it’s with students as well, because I’m at times leading so many different levels and groups of people from cosmetology if I’m still teaching cosmetology because I know that really is keeping my hand on the future of the industry and it’s standard in hair. So that part to me is very, very important. So sometimes I have a group of cosmetology students in front of me and you’re managing all those little personalities in the day and in the class or in the room.

And their hands and hair at the same time. So that’s, that’s one thing. And then you have our, you know, our younger team, our assistants to our new stylists, to overseeing the whole creative team in North America. So there’s so many different levels, but I think the leadership skill that I own really, I tried to keep that level across the board no matter whoever’s in front of me from the newest one in cosmetology on their first day to somebody that’s senior to me.

Yeah when you say teaching cosmetology for our audience that are not American, what exactly does that mean? Because like, you know, the UK, Europe, Australia, we don’t, they don’t use that term. So people Will be listening to this thinking, what does she mean?

Cosmetology is the beginner’s course. So it’s someone that’s potentially has never done hair before and has interest in the industry. In the United States. Each state has state board testing and hours that are required for somebody to become a hairdresser. So we run a course here and most everywhere in the states, someone has to be licensed first before they could work in salon as a hairdresser. So cosmetology is that course and in California and they have to have clocked in 1600 hours in that course. And then they can take a state test, get licensed, and then they could go and work in a salon from the beginning as an assistant or go and work for themselves or, so the license is really state governed.

Right. Got you. Okay. One of the other things I was thinking about before we got on this call was, you know, with the Sassoon story now being, you know, 60 plus 65 years which, which is amazing. What sort of impact does that have on attracting young hairdresser today? Do they relate to it? I mean, I started in 1980 so it was very sort of relatable. What Sassoon did it was a young company still. So now fast forward to 2020 it’s this amazing company that has this incredible legacy, et cetera. But I’m wondering about, I mean, I meet hairdressers all over the world who still don’t actually know that Sassoon was a man, so to speak, and they are already in the hairdressing industry. So you know, how the young people today relate to Sassoon work, you know, as, as hairdressers.

Yeah, I think within the industry it’s a trickle down. You know, they find somebody that they admire or somebody is their mentor and that’s how Sassoon is introduced, I think that’s where it starts. It’s within the industry. Okay. And like I said earlier, I think anybody that successful in the industry references Sassoon you know, in their bio, in their work and their ethos in their words. And so I think when somebody, when they have somebody new that comes in a new assistant or even somebody in your family that’s like, you know, I’d love to do hair, where do I begin? I think Sassoon is the first place they recommend them.

Yeah. Which says a lot. Oh no, it does. Yeah. I mean that’s, you used that word before the fundamentals. It’s the best foundation. It’s the best, the best foundation you can, you can get as still go renowned for that. I’m talking about hair for a minute. You know, the last 20 years basically there has been this predominance of long hair and I think that hairdressers today in terms of their technical and creative ability with color work far better than they were 20 years ago. You know, I think that the average young hairdresser today has a competency level with both color and dressing hair. That the sort of comparative of 20 years ago didn’t have, but I often find today with different, you know, coaching clients, et cetera, is that they will express a frustration with me that they cannot find hairdressers today who can cut hair.

Well, but there’s a young generation of hairdressers who they’re all about long hair and yes, they can color hair well and yes, they can dress it beautifully, but when it comes to, you know, doing a nice short little layered graduated, bob, whatever it is, they just don’t have the skillsets you know, to be able to do that. So, you know, talk to us about that, you know, where do you see that going? Where do you see that evolving too? Because I mean, obviously it’s going to change, but you know, Sassoons work is, it has a reputation, rightly or wrongly, for always being about short hair. And it isn’t always about short hair. I know that it does have that, you know, that reputation still. So, you know, so talk to us about how that sort of impacts on your daily life. And on, on training and on, you know, the sort of collections that the company put out, etc.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think I relate that to when the, in the era of the, when the flat iron came out, right, when the flat iron became really big and everybody was wearing their hair pin straight. I think then what happened, there was a generation of people coming up, young hairdressers that couldn’t finish hair Yeah. So the color thing is a bit like, like that I’ve been through both of them. And it comes around so there’s just a little gap and when it comes around, you know, I’ve confidence that then the people need, you know, the individuals need to show up and learn what they need to learn. So that’s also one of the reasons I think our foundational course and our ABC courses are our busiest because I think it is coming round. I think people realize they want to know how to cut hair as well. I know I always recommend to people that they’re well balanced so they should know everything and maybe they’ll specialize. But I think they should still for confidence be able to take any request that comes in the door.

Yeah,

Long hair, short hair. You know, it almost went one in the last period of time and it was like very heavily coloring hair and then a big focus on barbering. So the middle part was missing, like you said, the cutting hair, cutting shorter hair, Mid length hair that moves, you know, it’s there, it’s out there. I think it’s also about teaching the consumer about that. It’s always about educating the consumer. So if we’re going to going to stand back and just, you know, color hair and continue to finish hair, then that’s what you’re going to have come into your salon. If you want as a salon owner to do more hair cutting, you have to educate your clients and get them inspired to do so. You know, and it’s very much like Instagram pages. This is a while back, but I did a seminar and we had a hashtag we were using and it was return of the haircut and I went to do a cutting seminar with a great group of people and we’re, you know, cutting hair together.

Great demonstration. During the demonstration they were talking about how to get the clients to cut their hair more. And so we, we said, open up your Instagram page. We opened up the Instagram page and it was all long hair beachy waves with color on the ends. And I said, well, you can start here, let’s photograph everything we do today. Because it was all cutting and it was all hair above the shoulders and stock those and start posting them everyday, you know, one a day or whatever you want your calendar to be. But that’s, that’s where it has to live first now. Right. And then when the clients come in, even if you’re not gonna do it that time in moment, you inspire them for the next time. Sassoon. I think Sassoon being in it. What I realized Sassoon is we do great hair, it doesn’t matter the length, the texture.

I think there’s a lot of I don’t know what you call it. It seems that people think about Sassoon because of the history and the length of time it’s lasted. You know, we don’t, we use round brushes, we don’t do long hair, we don’t, and none of that is real really. You know, we do great hair. Our team are well balanced in doing great hair. We work in salon, you know, our salons, are regular salons that take the same clients any other salon would. And you know, we Excel in cutting and we promote cutting in our education centers, you know, in London. And we lead creativity with cutting and coloring, which at Sassoon we call shape and balance. So that’s for the hairdresser though, you know, the consumer in our windows we have fantastic haircuts, young, cool, sophisticated haircuts that hopefully attracts the consumer into the door. You know,

It’s interesting when you talk about the long hair thing and I sort of referenced, I say it’s been 20 odd years and realistically it has been every bit of 20 years and it has to change and it’s inevitable that it will change. And the reason that has to change and the reason it’s inevitable is that there is never a generation that want to look like their mom. Do you know what I mean? So if the generation of women over the last 20 years have all had long hair and which, you know, that’s a huge predominance so that there’s nothing wrong with that. My wife has long hair, my daughters have long hair. But is there’s an inevitability that the daughters of these women as they come through, so you know, the teenagers et cetera of today there’s an inevitability that they do not want that long straight hair and that balayage whatever, that there is going to be that, you know, that change of getting back into great little haircuts.

I think that’s great for the industry. I think it’s definitely great for Sassoon because a lot of people simply don’t have the technical and creative ability you know, to pull that off necessarily. So let’s, let’s move away from that for a little bit. Let me ask you about technology. You know, another thing that’s changed dramatically in both our hairdressing careers is, and you’ve alluded to it a couple of times, is Instagram and social media. What sort of impact has that had on Sassoon as a company and how do you, how do you manage and set guidelines around social media as a company?

Yeah, I think we all know you know, what Instagram has helped us to do. I mean, it’s the same for other salons as it is for Sassoon, you know, get the imagery out there, which is more instantaneous, you know, it’s makes things more accessible. It cuts back on distance and time, which is amazing. You know, if I wanted to see what London was up to, I had to maybe wait for an email or I’m a few days for PowerPoint for somebody to have made to send me. Now I can just watch it live through stories and be inspired by them consistently and constantly. You know, there’s not a day that I don’t wake up and open up any of the teams Instagram page in London or any of our salons for that to see what’s going on. And it’s not at all to be like checking but actually to see what they’re doing cause it’s so inspiring. it’s inspiring. And so I think for me that’s the major plusses, getting rid of distance and time and making things more instantaneously and being able to get a message out there visually.

That’s great. And it builds community, you know, it builds a community, allows us to really be connected with our community. And that’s really important for a, whether it be a single salon or an international brands, our salons are in our major cities internationally and each one of those has to build Within their community. And Instagram helps you to do that.

Yeah. Big time. A lot of people listening to this will, you know, have great Instagram followings and, and you know, there’ll be all over it, but, and you know, a lot of salons have really good guidelines around that, et cetera. But you still come across a lot of salon owners that are terrified of, of Instagram and the lack of control that it gives them over over clients and their staff, et cetera. As a salon company, do you have any guidelines around that for your staff?

We do. I think when it first came out, we did, we had, you know, a company policy on how much, you know, points of interest and, and, and guidance. And then also, you know, some house codes of what to do, you know, what not to do I guess. But I think if you trust in your team and they’re trained and we trust in them to, do the hair that’s leaving our salons, then they have to, I think they have a sensibility to what the brand is or the, whether it be a single salon again or a big brand to go forward. Cause you could almost choke them and not have them post and you kind of need to let it happen. It’s momentary Instagram, it’s a moment in time something goes up. It comes right down. And to be honest, right now everybody’s posting stories so it’s there and it’s gone. So it’s a lot less risk I think in that. So I feel allowing people to be freer. It’s probably to our best interests, but we obviously have a marketing department and they guide all of us. I have my own page which links to Sassoon, not the other way around. Then obviously we have our Sassoon pages, Sassoon Academy, official Sassoon salon official, which are global. And then we have unofficial ones, which are each one of our salons. And then all of our team have their own individual ones.

Yeah. How active are you on social?

I’ve done okay. You know, I think I am active when I have the quality I want, so I probably could be better at it. I could probably be more consistent with my calendar, but

I think we can all be better at it.

Yeah. but you know, I do alright. I’m stuck on a number that I can’t get past in, you know, I’m at like 33,000 followers and I can’t kind of get past that number. I haven’t kind of figured out what I should do with it, but it’s kind of not top of my list the people in front of me are at the top of my list.

Sure. Yeah. Look, I think a lot of people would like to be stuck on 33,000. You know, I’d quite like to be stuck on 33,000.

And it’s just, you know, it’s exposures and that is you know, the more people I meet and it’s my business card. Yeah. And it’s my way to communicate with every student or team member instantly, again, without distance or time.

Yeah. And as always said to me, don’t focus on the number, the number is not that important. You know, what’s important is the, you know, level of engagement. And especially at a salon level. I you know, couldn’t agree with that more. Okay. you know, another angle on the social media thing is YouTube and your education side of the Sassoon brand. Do you do a lot of, you know, online education? Is that, is that something that you, you know, have embraced as a company being as how you have such a big school business globally?

Yeah, yeah. We, I would love more than ever to constantly have a camera in one of the corners of these classrooms. We don’t yet, but we, we will online Sassoon online is really something we want. Whether you can have you know, just have the conversations like this with any of our teachers or team or have it be a fly on the wall in one of our classrooms, watch a Friday demo demonstration by one of our team or house all our amazing library. We don’t have that. That is something that’s in the works. It’s much needed. I look for, I look forward to it and part of the team working on it as well. So that’s something to look forward to from Sassoon for sure. But I think in that, I mean it’s one of those things isn’t it?

I mean, you want to have that, but I think in what we do, especially me as, as a teacher, I think because of social media and everything online so accessible, it really makes people believe that everything’s very easy and without hard work almost. And that I think speaks to the generation of why they want to do multiple things. Like when I was younger, I was like, I’m going to do one thing. I’m going to do the best of my ability. And I just kept following that and following that and whatever opportunity came within that I, I went and it was just like I said, I’ve only done this and I’ve worked for one company and now when I tell a student that they’re like, what? This is all you. This is all you’ve ever done. And then I have to stop them and say, well you can look at it that way. Or I’ve taken it and I usually have a scissor and comb in hand to younger student. I’ve taken this scissor and comb and I’ve been around the world.

Yeah, several times. Yeah. That’s interesting because you what you hear so often is I’ll say something like, I don’t want to still be doing this when I’m 30 it’s like, Oh great. Thanks very much for that.

I think. I think it all falls in that, doesn’t it? So I think the online stuff I think is brilliant. You have to have it. But what’s more important is that hand to hand, face to face, touch to touch, contact. We need that in honing a craft. Yeah, you need that. So I think it’s great. And people should watch step-by-steps and how to do hair 24, seven. They have to realize they have to show up somewhere as well and work alongside someone that’s better than them that will take them on a journey and share everything they know.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what do you, if you’ve got that, you know, that 20 years old is, is, you know, sat in front of you that you’ve just taken on out of beauty school as a, as a trainee assistant in the salons what’s the one bit of advice you’d give to that young stylist?

I think what I, what I just mentioned, I think most important, it’s, it’s what I’ve tried to always do. So I, it’s close to Mark Hayes as possible. I I think you have to surround yourself by people that have more experience and people that are in front of you that you aspire to be like or have what you want and position yourself as close as possible to them and Hopefully there the type that will share find a great mentor, you know, find a great mentor, stick to things. Be dedicated, be dedicated to something, be focused on something. You know, there’s that saying it takes 10,000 hours to be a master to master something. It doesn’t happen overnight.

10,000 hours is only, you know, five years if you’re doing a, if you’re doing like a 40 hour week or something, it’s five years. Well, you know, for me, I don’t know, I’m not going to talk for other people, but for me, five years into this industry, I still had a whole lot to learn, you know?

Oh my gosh. Yeah.

They don’t want to wait, but I don’t blame them either. It’s a world that they’re born into. They’re born into a world of instant gratification. Yeah. And it’s not their fault. So it’s trying to temper that. How do you, for someone who’s, you know, been in the industry a long time and who’s got a lot of experience and had a lot of responsibility, how do you reinvent yourself?

I stay as close as possible to the generation that we’re talking about right now. I think it’s really important to understand who they are. Be inspired by them. Because of the things they have, I’ve never even thought to do. Yeah. And there’s, there’s, is that a negative, any of it. I mean, what they have is amazing. But if they want to be like me, they’ve got to loosen up on that, on that. And if I want to develop, I have to change my mindset to be more flexible and open and do multiple things, you know, or want to do multiple things or at least to understand multiple things. Yeah.

Yeah, no, great answer. Great answer. It’s sort of very much associated to that. I mean, you know, we often talk in this industry about how it is a predominantly female industry. You know, I mean there’s a figure of 80% female, 20% male that’s bandied about. It’s not based on any real research I don’t think, but as a gut feeling. I think most people would, you know agree that that’s probably about right, that 80 20. And so when you say that 80% of them are female, then obviously what you’re also saying is, is that a lot of them are balancing, you know, running a business, being a hairdresser they’re balancing that with having to be a mum, a wife you know, with being a manager, servicing a client base, all that sort of stuff. How do you balance all that? Because I know you’re a wife and I know you’re a mom and I know you’re this, you know, a big role that you’ve got in this very big brand. How do you keep some balance with your own life?

I’m not sure. Some days I think I’m something, some days I think I’ve got a handle on all of it, Antony, and some days I think what is going on. But I think that’s, that’s the check-in. That’s the thing. If there’s ever a day that I don’t think that, I think I’ll, that’s when I, I could say I’ve failed.

Does it help? Does it help that you’re married to a hairdresser? No, not at all. Right. Okay. Does it make it worse? that you’re married to a hairdresser?

No, I’m not saying that at all either. No. I think you know, it’s a balance of all things, whatever it is, whatever you do, male or female. I think everybody has their stuff. And things that they care about. It’s never just one thing and balancing your time and mindset towards those things. It’s difficult. But I think if it’s always in the front of your mind, then it’s always being worked on. Cause that’s all you can expect is constantly working on it, being great, all of it, you know. Well and that’s always my goal is that it’s all successful. You know, success to me is having a balance of not just a career but personal life, career. They interlock Obviously they have to, you can’t go home and turn off and I can’t come into work and not think about, you know, the funny thing is that that my, my son had told me on the way to school cause he’s quite a smart little boy and he’s an inspiration to me.

And those stories sometimes I use to inspire my students. So they do interlock I think the two, I mean, one of the things I think when I had my son, I was, I was very much established or any of my career. And I had to set some guidelines I think that I not only could live by, but also the people I with knew I was consistent and, and just make choices for one or the other. So how I manage my time, there’s certain things I could do and certain things I can do because of work or, or because my family, you know, and myself and Julian, you know, when we had Charlie, we made the decision to, you know, be at home parents and not have a nanny or somebody else watch your child you know, we’ve had really rich careers to that point and we wanted to really be hands-on.

And so we’re always one-on-one off, you know. So if I’m out travelling Julian’s home and with Charlie and takes him to school brings him back from school and does all the things that, you know, our kids need from us and our families need from us. And vice versa when Julian travels. And I do that. And that’s kind of been our rule. And whoever gets the booking on the books first is, is it? So we’ve kind of played by that and that’s, that’s the one rule we have that we’ve stuck by and that seems to have, have got us to this point 10 years in to having an amazing little boy.

Yeah. And relationships are relationships, you know. I think who you are at work is who you are at home. And keeping, keeping that consistency, you know, with them and sharing and having fun. I think that’s a, that’s a good balance. Having fun with what we do and not taking it too seriously.

Sure. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. You’ve got to love what you do. You know, you spend a lot of time doing it. There’s a lot of sacrifice, a lot of discipline needed to be successful, you know, so, you know, don’t take it too seriously. Have fun in the process. We need to look to wrapping up here, unfortunately. What final words have you got and, and where can people connect with you on social or online?

Yeah. Well I want to say thank you first, Antony, for having me. I feel very privileged to have some time with you. Absolute pleasure. And sassoon.com is where you can find me if you want any share hair moments. I teach at our Academy full time and I love that. That’s my favorite thing. That’s the part of my job. I love teaching others and helping them get to their next level. And I’m happy to teach any level from a very, very much beginner beauty school student or somebody fresh in the industry inspire them to be in the industry all the way to an experienced hairdresser that needs to know new ideas for long hair or short hair or men’s hair or any of it. So sassoon.com and also tracisak_hair on Instagram. I’m on Facebook as well, but not as active on that.

Right. I’ll make, I’ll make sure I put that in the show notes on our grow my salon business website as well. So if you’re listening to this podcast with Traci Sakosits and you’ve enjoyed it, then do me a favor and take a screenshot on your phone and share it to your Instagram stories. So to wrap up, Traci, thank you very much for giving us this time, sharing your wisdom, your thoughts, your knowledge and your passion for the industry. I really appreciate you taking the time to do that with our audience on the grow my salon business podcasts So Tracy Sakosits thank you very much.

Thank you, Antony have a wonderful evening there.

I will do and you have a great day in Los Angeles.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to today’s podcast. If you’d like to connect with us, you’ll find us@growmysalonbusiness.com or on Facebook and Instagram at grow my salon business. And if you enjoyed tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share it with your friends. Until next time, this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success.