– Episode 025Barrie Stephen

Episode 025: Transcript

Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business Podcast where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I’m your host Antony Whitaker, and I’ll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.

Over the years I’ve seen many big-name salons in capital cities with high profile locations, expensive fit-outs and celebrity stylists, but sometimes those businesses don’t actually make any profit. They might generate a lot of revenue, but the high overhead and often transient populations of both clients and staff members can create problems of their own. Then I see other salons all over the world that are maybe not in the capital cities and maybe don’t quite get the prestige of being in such high profile locations, but despite that they are very successful, profitable businesses and they can compete with any salon no matter where they are. One such group in the UK is the Barrie Stephens salons in Leicester, which is a city with just over 300,000 people. It’s about two and a half hours north of London. Today’s guest on the podcast is Barrie Steven, part-owner of the salon group who with his partner Joachim have created a great business. In today’s podcast, we’re going to discuss what does it take to build a great team today are competitions and awards still as relevant in this age of social media, how to create a great team culture. How do you motivate and lead a team the importance of being part of the community? What are the keys to successful expansion and lots more. So, without further ado, let’s jump straight in and talk to our guest today owner of the Barrie Stephens salons. Mr Barry Stephens welcome to the show Barrie.

Thank you very much, Antony. It’s great to be here.

Yeah, it’s really good to have you here. I really appreciate you taking time out of your very busy day and business to spend some time talking to us. So let’s start with you giving us your, you know, your five-minute backstory as an overview of the business for those people, particularly in Australia and the U S who perhaps don’t know anything about the Barrie Stephens salons So over to you.

Right. Okay. Just five minutes you said. So. Okay. We started at the age of 15 for me, walking down the high street with my mum. I flew up a flight of stairs and I was greeted by a receptionist and I asked the question, do you have any Saturday jobs? And really that’s what and when it started I started there Saturdays and then I got offered something called a YTS, a youth training scheme as it were at that time. And it was a government incentive job and I think I earned 27 pounds 30p the first year and not very much more the second year, probably about 33 pounds 50p the second year but it was always my dream to be a hairdresser. And from a very young age I knew hairdressing was where I wanted to be.

So I started there as an apprentice and did my time and you know most of us did 12 hours a day and learning the trade and the craft, but actually like a lot of hairdressers and I think hairdressers are notorious for grass hopping and jumping around salons to salons. And certainly that’s what happened in the city here, looking for that extra tenner up the road, you know. And so I did a bit of that as well, but you know what? I learned is you know, grasshoppers in life are never successful people, people who stay close and stay focused, really make it work for themselves. So I then started working in a salon where I became successful and then I built lots of clients and you know but it was always my dream to open my own salon.

And I could visualize exactly what that was going to look like. And I’d worked day and night Antony, you know, so the 12 hours a day and then go and do some home hairdressing as well. And I’d save all of my money, you know, to enable me one day, to be able to open my own salon. And I was driving through a village here in Leicester and it was called Anstey it is called Anstey. And that was 23 years, 24 years ago, actually, 25 in November. Sorry. So 4th of November, 1996 was the day we opened a very dilapidated butcher shop and I could see exactly what it was going to look like. And we just took on this front room and there was four stations and I always wanted to work with Paul Mitchell actually Paul Mitchell back then 25 years ago. It was very much a quality product as it is today, but it’s not so recognized in the UK as it was then.

And I think you know, I always wanted to be associated with quality. When you think about, you know, Selfridges, Harvey Nichols, BMW, Paul Mitchell so that that was the impression I wanted to create the perception. So the quality was important. There was two people, Debbie and myself started at the time. And you know, we got off to a great start due to the demands and the popularity of the salon the word got out very, very quickly. You’ve got to remember this, this village had a population of 7,000 people then. And you know, I think 99.9% of people said, what are you doing opening a really cool boutique London style salon in this village of Anstey? Well, if I’d listened to them, I wouldn’t be talking to you now. So we got off to a great start and sadly the guy who owned the property died and it was an opportunity for me to buy.

And then we put a flight of stairs in, and then we operated on three levels in Anstey back 25 years ago. Actually in Anstey, nobody really knew me in the city. So I wanted to make a salon in the city, and I sold my home to enable me to do that. And I bought a half a million pounds property back then actually. And I thought, you know, what am I going to do? You know, if it goes belly up, you know? So that’s why I sold my home to enable me to get enough capital and inject into this beautiful Victorian property here in the city. And I have to tell you, every man and his dog knew about Barrie Stephen coming into the city. We made a big, loud bang and a big noise. We had, you know, we had a fantastic launch to the business here in the city.

So that was then, so now we have five salons and we have two barbershops as well. So we’ve come a long way. In a short time. We’ve lived and breathed it 24/7. We’re all in morning, noon and night. We’ve got a fabulous team of about 65, 70 people across the group. Who are very much dedicated to there passion and art very driven. For me it was always about working alongside of people very similar to myself, you know cause I’m a very passionate person, you know, when I cut hair I cut it from my heart. I want to work with like minded hairdressers. So yeah, we, do some great things. We believe that we have put Leicester and hairdressing on the map, that’s for sure. Delivering, red carpet gorgeous hairdressing 365 days of the year. So that’s a bit about me.

Good. Okay. Well I’ve just made a whole page full of notes there. So Joachim your current partner, he didn’t open the very first salon with you. He came on board later on, is that right?

Yeah, he did actually that there’s a story to tell there So I met Joachim in Greece Mykonos many, many years ago and he moved over to England. And he was my partner at the time. And you know I always shared my aspirations, my dream, which was to open my own salon, and he was very supportive and very encouraging. He actually came on board later on as the business evolved and developed because he’s an accountant, so he’s really numbers smart and He worked actually for Next, we’ve got a head office here in Leicester the Next head office and he used to work in their accounts department, so it was a great natural fit for him, to come on board, you know, as and when the business was in shape and, and in a position where we could employ him. So he came on board in the, in the top attic in the gods. And he used to do the number crunching each and every day. And the marketing side. And so that whole collaborative mix with me being creative and him being the number man, you know, it was a great mix Right? Makes yes. Yeah,

Without a doubt. And you bought the first building in Antsey, you say?

We did and we bought it at a snip pardon the pun. It was like 40 K at the time. So it really set us in good stead and what I’ve learned from that as well. You know, investing in property really does you know, stand you well in order to move your business forward and develop it and borrow money and et cetera. Yeah Well that’s, that’s actually one of the things I often say to people is that, you know, when I’m doing my seminars, et cetera, I’ll often, you know, I find that there’s a lot of young hairdressers that all want to be in the capital city in the highest profile location, blah, blah, blah, or in the U S in you know, high profile malls, et cetera. And one of the things I always point out to them is that, you know, there’s nothing wrong with that, but the downside is you are never going to own your real estate. Whereas as soon as you step outside of the big capital cities or even go into slightly more suburban areas of some of those cities, there’s an opportunity to potentially buy the salon premises that you’re in. And I’ve never met anybody who owns a salon who bought the premises, who said it was a mistake. Most of them say it was the smartest thing they ever did, and they probably made more money from that than they do from hairdressing. So it’s a, it’s a great lesson in itself, isn’t it?

Absolutely. Exactly. And that’s what I did here at King street as well. So I own both of my properties in Anstey and in King street and King street right bang in the middle of Leicester, and that’s our flagship and as I said, you know, going back then it was a half a million pound project15 years on. So it gives you some idea you know what it might be worth today. So it serves as well. And you know, it’s bang smack in the city, so yeah.

Good, good. And are you still behind the chair doing clients yourself?

So I just do some clients on a Saturday. And I really indulge myself doing clients because it’s, for me, it’s the best. Every day’s a Saturday in the salon. But you know, it’s a great day for me to work with my guys. There’s nothing better than I love, you know, clients coming in and we’re all getting creative. Ther’s music’s on. It’s Saturday, it’s a great buzz. So I adore Saturdays. I very much look forward to working and indulging myself and creativity with the clients. Yeah,

Yeah. Good. And, and the other thing that you, you dropped in there was you said when you opened your first salon, it was you and Debbie. Is Debbie your mum?

No, no. Debbie was a hairdressing friend of mine and she since opened her own salon and she came on board right from day one. And her and I used to work alongside of each other and we used to do some great haircuts and we would literally be there from eight in the morning til eight at night. And then we’d mop and clean and, you know, make the salon look fabulous for the next day for our clients. So we lived and breathed it and you know, again, you know, we’re all in. We were all in then and we’re doing the same things then as we do now, you know, in order to be successful.

Now I mentioned your mum because I met her a few years ago when I was in your salons and I was surprised she was your mum to start with she didn’t look old enough. Is she, still part of the business?

Yes. So she does she, she’s fantastic on the phone, so sometimes we’ll pull her into our reception team, you know, so she’ll, she’ll move around the salons and do various things for us. She’s like my sister, my mom. She looks tremendous.

Yeah. That’s good. Okay. All right, let’s, let’s dig in a bit deeper then. So you alluded to barbershops. And I know before we got on the conversation, we also talked a little bit about blow dry bars, et cetera. So tell us about the barbering side of your business because I know that that has been something that you’ve been very passionate about and it’s quite recently you know, made a bigger contribution to what your business is all about.

Very much has. And six years ago I had in King street a coffee bar area actually, and that area, I had a vision of what we could do with that. And so I threw15 K at it at the time and we turned it into a retro traditional Barbers lounge. And what that did was, was generate a fabulous income a business within a business. Because of course you’ll always get those clients who want to come in with hairdressers but barbering is quite different. And going back six years ago, it’s really where the landscape changed, if I’m honest. And I think it really took off. And of course every, everyone’s really focused on barbering now. But what we did was we transformed this space into a barber’s lounge. We bought some really cool barbers in, and that was fabulous. And we’ve done that and we’ve operated a very profitable, and successful barbers lounge and space.

But I wanted to take it up a notch and I wanted to do and offer some real traditional American old school stuff, you know, the shaving, the wet shaving and you know, hairdressing. I’m a hairdresser, I’m not a barber. So I wanted to collaborate and work with somebody who I see as the Jamie Oliver of the barbering industry. And that is the one and only Sid Sottung and he’s from New York and now based in the UK. He’s all over the world. He’s in Arizona at the moment. So him and I have formed a partnership and he’s working with me on a standalone barber shop here in Leicester Sid Suttong. And actually what we’re doing now is transforming the first floor of the King street salon into a gentleman’s department. So we’re going to do the whole shoe shine. The Wet shave we’re bringing in all those traditional things back into our business. And you know, I’m very proud to have built this friendship and a business relationship with Sid, so we’re super excited about that.

Yeah. So was that in a response to, I mean, you know, I know that you have very much that traditional, for want of a better word, you know, unisex salon during the, during the sort of, you know, 80s, 90s, noughties, whatever. And then, you know, this barbering thing has, has sort of changed the world of hairdressing over the last 10 years. Were you finding that it was impacting on your business? In other words, you were losing clients to traditional barbershop, so you decided to, bring something internal. Was that, was that the sort of rationale behind it? Yes It was the rationale? And also because barbering’s really taken off by, so there’s, you know, on every corner there’s a barber shop, but they’re doing it like for, 10 pounds, like 15 pounds, they’re not really doing it the way we want to package our barbering services. So for me it’s about creating the experience, the top end barbering experience. So we want you to do it very differently to perhaps, you know, every other barbering. So step barber, so that’s why we’ve done what we’re doing.

Right. And price wise it’s at a higher price. Yeah, of course. It starts at 20 upwards 25, 30, 40 and so on, depending on who you have of course.

Sure. Okay. All right. And the blow dry bar. I know that that’s a an older part of the business model. Just talk to us a little bit about the importance of that now. Now that’s evolved.

Well, I think we were one of the first actually out of London to launch the first blow dry bar in the midlands and it was really successful. Clients can just walk in and have a blow bar and it’s 20 pounds and they can get their hair blown out on the day. We have five different looks and you know, people can just take advantage of that. Again, it’s been a fantastic add on service within the business and it’s been hugely successful. We’ve rolled that out in all of the salons so that’s every day readily available for our clients.

Okay. And is that part of the main salon or is it a separate, you know,

It was initially we created a blow dry bar, but we wanted the concept and the service to be rolled out in all of the salons, So it’s a service where people can come in. Yeah, and tap in to.

Okay. So Barry, what, what are the keys to successful expansion? Your business has evolved and grown and done so successfully. So, you know, what do you put that down to?

Okay, well I’ve expanded my business many times over the years and of course, inevitably that has a ripple effect depending on what you do. We’ve added to the the number of salons and obviously built a team. But I think first and foremost Antony, You’ve got to have a sound business model in place and that has to be portable. So what you’ve got there, and what I’ve done it over the years is what I’ve seen lots of people go out and open their own salon It’s very easy to go and open your own salon. Actually making it work and making it successful is the thing. So it’s having a portable or transferable model, business model which works. And I think as well, you know, when your business is in good shape, then expand the business. Lots of people want to run before they can walk.

And for me I’ve always organically grown my business, so when one has been hugely successful and we’re maximizing all the opportunities within that business, I think that’s the key point. Having a great team of course with you. And if you’re opening another salon you can’t just put new people in it and just expect it to work as a business. The DNA has to be in there and the culture of your people, you know, what we’re trying to create. You know, so I always, when I open a new salon I have a hit team, a mini hit team, and we send them in because they know what is expected of them. They know exactly what they’ve got to do to win the clients over. And set themselves up to win. So yeah, I think that, and of course you’re invariably does have a ripple effect because bringing new people into your business as well, replenishing the team you’ve taken out, you’ve got to re educate them and indoctrinate them into your culture and your standards. I think, you know, just basically getting the formula, right?

Yeah. Okay. You mentioned your team and you’ve already talked about a little bit about Sid and we’ve touched on Joachim your business partner. And I know, you know, from our dealings over the years that you’re very, you know, you really put a lot of emphasis on your people. You’re very people orientated, you built a great team. It’s not just, you know, the Barrie Stephens show. So, you know, how do you create a successful culture

Within the business? Okay. Well, I think the culture, as you quite rightly said, is massively important. Creating that culture and opportunity for your team I think is massively important. You know, I mean, as we speak today you know, my very own Neil Smith who’s worked with me 20 years, who’s been on such a journey, he’s out in Argentina at the moment, launching Eufora What a great opportunity. But that comes in a business sacrifice as well Antony as you know owning your own salons he’s out of the salon for two weeks. I mean that, that’s a cost to the business and but you know, creating that of course it has to be a balanced win-win, a joint journey. And I think it’s about creating journey as to where your team want to go within the business. And getting that balance right you know, I think balance is, is massively important and rewarding people.

You know, everybody wants to work where the party is, don’t they? They want to work where it’s happening, where the opportunities are. You know hairdressers are notorious as we said earlier for sort of jumping around, looking for that better situation, that better opportunity. But we do bring all of that to, to Barrie Stephen and that’s, we’ve got such a strong core of people who have been with the business for 25 years. You know, some of the guys that have been with me from very much the early days, you know, so you know, culture, reward looking after your team, setting your team up to win, giving them the very best opportunities. And I think you know, actually two years ago I launched something called the 100 K club and these are people who have worked in the salon who’ve worked with me for many years and that’s super successful. They’re earning a hundred pounds a hundredThey’re taking rather a 100K plus. So I called it the 100k club. And so what that did was give these people an extra week holiday, a high level of commission, they wanted more Saturdays off they could have that. And so we would reward those people You know, in that way because they were part of that special club. Obviously that’s aspirational people want to be pushing towards that and making life great for themselves. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you’ve been in business 25 odd years different generations, you know baby boomers millennials, now, gen Z.

What do you find, that young people want today? Like how do you, like, what’s different about how you motivate and treat and you know, create opportunities for young people today to satisfy their needs and expectations?

So I think it’s a really good question. And you know, as one gets older and you know, you get frustrated. I think it’s normal as your patience and your tolerance levels become less. So I, you know, when I’m talking to a young person, it’s very difficult to understand where they’re coming from because young people tend to want it like yesterday, you know, and they don’t want to do what it takes in order for them to take themselves nearer to where they want to be the way They don’t want to always put it. So I think it’s really just sort of inspiring them. And you know, when we talk about motivation, you’ve got to inspire them to get them motivated, to get them wanting to turn up on time, looking fabulous, wanting to walk and talk and approach things in the successful way they need to promote themselves in, you know. So I think it’s about talking their language and having a real understanding of expectations, I think is key.

So I mean, I know from previous conversations that there are little things that you do, very practical things. Yes.

for your team around health and fitness and that sort of stuff. Just share with us what some of those things are. I think actually, you know, story going back gosh, six years ago I worked with the young lady in the salon and I it didn’t take me long to realize we’ve got a problem. And she was a relatively a new team member. And what I noticed was she’s running up and down the stairs and she was throwing her lunch away and she was popping out of the salon for cigarettes and she was really skinny and alarm bells were ringing. And truly this is a true story. And she became very poorly and ended up in hospital with anorexia. She had an eating disorder that was really very sad. And you know, we obviously supported her you know, and she did come back to the salon and she did get well, but you know, that really got me thinking about what we could do as a business.

So I wanted to, to, to bring some people into the business to help the team really set them up to win. So we did like various things like a walk to work week. We did fruit bowls, which we still have in the salon now, you know, healthy eating five a day, we bought hypnotherapists in you know for hairdressers are notorious for love, you know, smoking, they love a Love a Fag you know, let’s bring some hypnotherapists in and get them to think about stopping smoking.I have to interject there because our American audience, when you say they’d love a fag we need to explain to them that you’re talking about cigarettes. Yeah, of course. No cigarettes. So, and actually I think three of them stopped smoking through that process and we bought sexual health advisers in. We bought gosh, what else did we do?

We did everything really to set our team up. We bought a personal, I train, I go to the gym. I train with a personal trainer at that time I bought my personal trainer in to talk about postural exercises and stretching, you know I’ve bought a nutritionist in to talk to them about food, you know, hairdressers are really terrible with their eating habits. You know they sort of eat in between clients and you know, how important it was to have a proper break and sit down, feed themselves and water themselves. So, and we constantly revisit that program because it’s just part of what we do within all of the Barrie Stephens salons. So we really do look after our team and of course, you know, mental health, mental wellbeing is very current and yeah, we’ve always considered that and we’ve always, in fact, we’ve actually bought a counselor in to talk to different team members privately as well. We’ve supported that process. Fantastic. Yeah. So we were sort of way ahead of the game back then. Sort of six, seven years ago.Young people, we have an obligation to look after them, you know, they’re coming to our industry and need to show them the way we need to coach them and look after them they often come out of school, you know, cotton wool environment and it’s very different to that in the real world.

Yeah, exactly I admire your energy and enthusiasm here. I’m looking at you talking, so animatedly if that’s the correct word. And, and you have so much energy and passion for the business, your people, and what you want to share. So thank you for doing that. I know also that outside of your salon you like to get very involved with the community at different levels. Talk to us a little bit about some of the charities that you might be involved with and, and what you see as the importance of small businesses, salons in particular in being involved with their community.

Yeah. Well, I think for me it’s about giving, giving back to the community. It’s about engagement, isn’t it? And you know, doing good things for people really does pay dividends and that isn’t why we do it, We do it because we want to make a difference, I’m a Leicester boy I’m very proud of that Leicesters been extremely good for me. And you know, as a result of me opening my salons here in Leicester there’s probably another 20 salons here in Leicester and they’ve gone, you know, a lot of those salon owners have gone through our training program and they have the same values and ethos and line themselves with the same values, if you like. So I think that that’s really important. So working with other charities, it’s massive for me. And making more connections with local businesses and communities.

We work with DMU, we’ve done hair for the queen, here at the De Montfort university we work with, we do hair for the fashion show. We’ve collaborated with the theatre, I work with a lot of young entrepreneurs. I’m the patron the first ever patron for the Sir Thomas White charity here without, Sir Thomas White charity, I wouldn’t be in business today. I borrowed 10,000 pounds back then, it’s a Leicester charity as it were then. And you know, I had to sit in front of the dragons, the dragons den as it were then and tell and convince these people with my business plan what I wanted to do and I very much work and shout about the great things. Sir Thomas White can bring you know, for young people wanting to follow their dreams and start up their own businesses, not just hairdressing of course. So I’m a massive animal lover as well. So I’m an ambassador here for the Leicester animal aid center here.

So Shouting about the great things they do each and every day. I’m putting on events, raising money, for our four legged furry friends here in Leicester So we do so many things. Actually, we’ve worked with the homeless, we’ve just done something at Christmas with the age concern. We did a full day, actually Sid my business partner Barber, he just cut hair all day Christmas Eve just for age concern here in Leicester, which was such a nice thing to do, you know, and nobody asked him. He just said, that’s what I’m going to do. But you know, I think It’s just about giving back isn’t it? And getting your team energized and involved in that as well is a great motivator. We’ve gone in and worked with four different hospitals here in Leicester We’ve even worked at the chemotherapy unit her in Glen fields at the time and we’ve even, you know, when people have got no hair, we’ved just massaged aroma therapy oils into the scalp and just given them a you know, a nice experience. And so what we haven’t done here, I don’t know what we’ve done because we’ve done pretty much everything and continued to, to do various things. As we go along, you know, lots of random acts of kindness yeah. Sorry, i’m rambling on

No, you’re not rambling on at all and you don’t do it as a marketing thing, but it obviously is good for business. It’s good for, it’s good for the community. It’s good for that team culture thing we spoke about because all of this stuff builds culture, doesn’t it?

It does. And it creates feel good. Yeah. We want, we want our clients to feel good each and every day, but perhaps in times when people can’t get in for whatever reason. And so we want to go out and it gives them a bit of red carpet gorgeous hairdressing in their situations. And so that’s what we doYeah.

Yeah. Good. Okay. Can I ask you how do you how do you pay your people?

Very well. Yeah, I’m sure you do. What sort of system do you have?

I truly believe, you know, in my company today, I truly believe that we pay the very best wages in the Midlands. I, I’m convinced we do. We really do look after our people and give them the very best education. I couldn’t think of anywhere better to work than my company. So how do we pay them? We reward them of course, with a great basic wage and we give them a commission, a structure in place where they can, you know, taking selves as far as they want to go. So we cap that, put a ceiling on it, you know, as I said, we’ve got the hundred K club, we’ve got hairdressers earning 50 K, here in our salon today as we stand.

Yeah and would you, would you mind sharing what, what within that commission structure, what sort of percentages can people potentially earn?

So up to, well, as in like 40% up to 45%, but actually the economics anymore doesn’t really stack. So on generally speaking about 40, but of course we’ll put incentives in place, you know, bonuses on, we like to reward great things. So, you know, we might puts in place extra holidays. We might just look after our team in a way which would make them feel appreciated.

No, I think, I think that’s great. You know, like 40, 45%, as you just said, once you start going above that, there’s nothing in it for the business and the business is starting to lose money. You know, literally there’s certainly nothing to fuel the growth and expansion of the business. And unfortunately a lot of salons, the world over get that formula wrong and those numbers that you’re talking are about, you know are what I think are realistic, whether you’re talking the UK, the U S you know, Australia, whatever. And once you go above that, you’re starting to you’re, you’re starting to work for them as opposed to them work for you. And the business no longer has the money to put back into it to grow everybody. And that’s ultimately what it’s all about.

That’s right. When you pay somebody 40%, you know, that’s gonna cost you 52% really real terms once you’ve paid their pension and holidays. So yeah, I mean, you’ve got, it’s a balance isn’t it? It’s got to be right for the employees. It’s gotta be right for the business. So it’s a win win.

Yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned right at the beginning that Joachim was an accountant. So you’re, you’re the hairdresser, you’re the front man, you’re the you know, you’re the marketing guy. You know, you’re that person. Joachin is very much the numbers guy. It’s essential to have that sort of relationship, isn’t it? It’s very difficult for any salon owner to wear both those hats and wear them well. And I often find that in a lot of successful businesses that You know, that those roles have been clearly delegated, often to different people because it is a challenge to, to be the, you know the hairdresser to be the marketing guy and to be all over the numbers and getting excited about them at the same time. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Yeah, so I mean, yes Joachim is very much behind the scenes. He doesn’t like the limelight as I do, but I, you know, I’m a, I’m an effective leader. I push from behind and I push my team forward cause I believe, you know in pushing the team in the direction they need to go. I’m a clear communicator. So I, you know, my message is very clear to my team. I’m a creative soul. So I do have many hats and actually, you know, I can read a P and L like the back of my hand. I’m very good with numbers as well and I’ve learnt that skill over the years being in business and Joachim bless him, he thinks he’s a hairdresser sometimes he might get involved when I’m

doing a 1to 1 and tell them how to cut hair. But you know, I think it really is all joking aside it’s creating that mix, which for me, you know, I’m very fortunate. I wouldn’t want to do it without Joachim frankly. You know, he a great business partner and he’s made a massive difference to the business. Yeah. He’s number smart He’s very very clever. Just, just finishing up on the numbers side of things. If you’re a salon owner and listening to this no matter where you are in the world, what sort of percentage should you be aiming for as a profit margin? What do you think are realistic profit margin is, I mean, I find, I find that a lot of salons pretty much break even. You know, they’re not making much profit at all. Unfortunately and you know, maybe the average one is making three, four, 5% profit.

Occasionally you do come across businesses that are making 10, 15, and even more. It’s unusual. So with your experience, what would you suggest a realistic, achievable figure is for salons? Well, you know we currently make 20 between 20, 23% we turnover 3 million Between the salon group. I know as you quite rightly said there Antony a lot of salons don’t even make a profit. And so we do have a very strong business model which delivers and produces a great, yeah. You know, we run a tight ship, you know, everything is very much monitored our budgets are tight, everything’s focused, everything we do. So when you quote figures like that is that after the directors have been paid? No of course not. We, we will Oh, it comes out of that. Got you. Got you. Okay.

That would be extraordinary nice because I think that’s gives you some idea of yes, yes. Yeah. Because that’s often what a lot of salon owners do is they think they’re profitable, but they’re not because the profit is their wages. And I’m sure out of that 23%, once the directors have taken their salary, there is still something healthy to reinvest back into the business. Quite Yeah. Good. Okay. So Barry, I want to switch it up a little bit and I want to, I’ll ask you about technology and change. And I want to start with social media. So, you know, you’ve been in business for 25 years. I mean, you know, Facebook et cetera has only been around what, 12 years or something. Talk to us about how social media has impacted on your business, what’s been good and maybe where the challenges have been.

Yeah, but it is good and you know, you have to use it to your advantage. Love it or hate it. It’s there isn’t it. I’ve gotta be honest with we, we have many, we have many challenges

And we do still have challenges with social media. If we think about a stylist, for instance, moving on, to another salon of course that, you know, years ago you could manage that process. Now know everybody knows where they are. Your clients have gone overnight, et cetera. So, you know I’ve struggled with social media to be fair. Yeah. We have some simple roles, but you know, for me it’s what happens in the chair when the client comes into the salon. You know, everybody’s posting pictures of beautiful hair, you know, that doesn’t really get the client in the salon and you know, lots of people put pictures out I think, but if you think that’s going to get the client in, I’m not so sure about that. So I think, you know, you’ve got to engage with, with people and you’ve got to create you know, interaction. But I think it has been good. And it has presented problems.

Yeah. Do, do you have anyone within the organization who looks after social media or is it everybody sort of doing their own bit?

So we encourage everybody to send pictures through. And we manage those pictures because it may be, you know, with respect, which just even down to like the gown or where the client is standing. And there could be a team member in the team or we won’t fun engagement as well within the team, but you know they could be standing behind the you know a board with figures on and things like that, that need to be protected. So we do police it and we do manage it. And Chelsea actually looks after the social media in our office.

We actually farmed it out to various agents as well. Agencies and PR, but actually they don’t really talk your language. So living and breathing the salon culture and really knowing the team and the different salons, I think that’s key. I think that’s massively important.

Yeah. To handle it in house, I agree. In an all my experiences. I, I’d actually totally agree with that. Is, is it Instagram or Facebook? Where’s your, where’s your key focus?

Well, I think it’s Instagram.

Right? Okay. All right. And, and do you is it clients that you put on Instagram or do you do specific shoots that you’re using for Instagram with models that are done out of hours, et cetera?

No, no, it’s pretty much across the board really. So a mixture of Everything because if you think, you know, one thing appeals to one not another. So we’re really trying to tick all the boxes.

Yeah. Okay. What other uses of technology? Have you embraced in the, in the salon? I mean, do you have any, do you have a salon app that you use? I mean, how do you use Instagram or YouTube, whatever, in terms of training? Do you use anything like that?

Yeah, so we, we have actually bought experts into the salon to train the team with, with social media. But just technology is constantly changing. I think for, we, the question was, do we have an app? We’re just about to launch a second app because we’re always trying to make the clients booking client experience easier. Mmm. We work with salon IQ, which is a fantastic system where we can, you know, communicate with our clients share different promotions and you know, what, what’s happening in the salon activity wise. We’ve just launched our telephone central hub. So we’re taking that whole experience to a new level rather than, and I think as well, you know, actually this whole reception desk and computer in the salon has pretty much had its day. I think trying to make a seamless environment, we’re trying to create a much better experience for our clients.

Okay. So you were having a call centre to handle all the bookings for all four salons and what you’re starting to get, get rid of the reception desk.

Correct. I think often you know it most salons everybody wants to congregate behind the bloody reception desk and I’ve explained that’s so done now, you know, and it creates a barrier, it’s intimidating. I don’t know what that’s about, but people would always want to stand there behind it, looking out the window, you know? And so it’s not very conducive to business now. So we’re really sort of taking a different approach to customer experience, client experience and communication. So using technology is important from that point of view.

So, so what will that look like? Will, receptionists have an iPad or something and they’ll be checking clients out from their chair.

That’s exactly what we’re going to do. Offering an Xpress you know, service as well, so people can actually just pay the bill and just leave the salon So it’s just much easier for people for sure

Yeah. I know of a lot of salons that are, that are talking, that talk. I have not seen any of them that are actually doing it or doing it well. Do you know of any salons that you’ve looked at and you’ve gone, they are doing that so well, they’ve done away with the desk. I mean, everyone uses as a reference, the Apple store, you know. But I’ve not, I’m not seeing it in any salons where I’ve gone.

Wow,

They have really nailed that. You know, they’ve got rid of the desk. They’re still killing it with the retail and the client experience is brilliant. It’s seamless transition. Are you seeing it work effectively? Anywhere?

Come back and see us in a year’s time. We’re going to, we’re going to nail it. Yeah, absolutely. I like you. I haven’t seen it as I would want it to work for our salon group. Yeah. Okay. All right. Now all over the world, not just in the hairdressing industry, in in lots of industries, there is this move towards independent contractors, self employed, gig economy, freelancers, whatever you want to refer to it as. What are your observations? I read somewhere recently that even in the U K now that there is something like 54% of hairdressers are now self employed, in America, it’s at least that much. There’s a very strong culture obviously of the salon suites there and booth rental. What are your thoughts about that and how are you, what’s the word? You know, I mean, are your people self-employed? You know, what’s your stand on that, so to speak?

Yep. So, no, they’re not. Is it a route I want to go down. No, it isn’t. I am aware that, you know, that there is a, a majority of hairdressers here in the UK who probably are self employed too. I think that’s going to change. Yes, I do. I think there’ll be a tipping point. I do when they work out really, you know, I have people asking me, You know, I have asked people who the people who’ve come and asked me rather who are self employed in other salons to come and work here because they, they really like the idea. I’ve being employed having holidays having great opportunities. You know, being able to earn a consistent income. So I think that’s far more attractive and I think we’ll see less self employed certainly as the revenue and the revenue, get the teeth into these self employed operators who are not paying their and contributing tax. Yes. Yeah. So when you, when you say the revenue in the UK, we call it the revenue in the U S they call it the IRS. Yeah.

Yeah. So i’m sure they will sink their teeth into lots of self employed operators because you know that there is a problem here. Ah, I see resolving itself, I’m sure. Okay. But I wouldn’t want it in my salons anyway Antony because I just don’t think it’s conducive to the culture, you know, culture is massively important and my team are so important. So making sure, you know, your team turn up on time, you know and look fabulous and do great hairdressing have a great you know, approach to their clients. And I think as a self employed person, it’s very difficult to give them direction and control that and I’m pretty much a control freak generally within my business. I like things.

Sure. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Let’s just talk about your personal skills of success. What is it that drives you? So I guess the people really and the clients. Simple as, you know, I want to come to work every day is different. It’s a great opportunity to work with, you know, never one day is the same as the others. So I think making people feel good. It’s not so much about the money, it is about success. And what does that look like? You know, for me, success is about happy clients happy Team being Reputable, credible, Giving people a great life, great opportunities and having a great time doing that. Yeah. Yeah. How do you stay relevant? How do you, how do you reinvent yourself? I mean, the Barrie Stephen today is not the Barrie Stephen that I met 10 years ago or 10 years before that or whatever it is.

So what is it like, yeah, behind that? So I think, you know, it’s always pushing yourself and your personal development, taking on, you know, new challenges in, you know in your life and you’re constantly exploring, learning, sharing and sharing time, hanging with, you know, they say you’re an average of the three people you hang with. And so, you know, I want to hang with successful people. You’ve probably heard before successful people leave clues, you know? Yeah. So for me it’s about learning from others and I’m always pushing myself forwards and I would never compromise that, you know, never compromise. I remember somebody saying to me early in my journey when I first opened my salon, you know, Barrie you really, really are hard on yourself and you should chill out a little bit and, you know, just let things go a little bit.

Well, if I’ve got to let things go and I can’t push forward and I’m not happy to do it. And I don’t want to compromise my standards. So, you know, I guess that for me is the way I am personally in my life and in my business. Good. There’s nothing wrong with that. Like any business, it must be times where things don’t go right. I mean, you know, people leave, et cetera, et cetera. How do you overcome adversity? How do you, how do you respond when things, you know, don’t go the way you wanted? Well, you know, I think you’ve got two choices. haven’t you you know I always look for positives. And as one door closes, I’m a great believer, another opportunity comes your way. And that is so true. So often when you know, bad situations present themselves, there’s always a positive.

So just being really focused forward. I love red wine. You can intravenous me with red wine every night, you know it’s a great way of relaxing I yeah, I’ll take my dog for a walk and, and we, we’ve got something in our office called two four and you may or may not have heard that two four is it could be two, four seconds two four minutes, two, four hours. Let’s just two four it. Let’s just think about it. And often, you know, as creative people, we shoot from the hip we put our mouth into gear before our brain. And I think it’s about just two fouring it and thinking about what is in front of you and turning that negative into a positive. And you can always find a positive in any situation. Yeah,

It’s good, good advice. What’s sort of on that, on that tune on that theme, what’s the biggest lesson that you’ve learned in life? It doesn’t have to be in business. It doesn’t have to be in hairdressing, but what’s the biggest lesson that you’ve learned? Or perhaps another way of asking the same question or a similar question is, if you could go back in time, what advice would you give to Barrie Stephen 25 years ago when he was starting out on the salon journey.

Okay. Oh God, there’s so many lessons of course. There’s so many so many things I’ve learned. I guess stay true to yourself. You know don’t compromise your values and your,

Your principles, you know, and stay forward focused because I think people do want to pull you back. And there’s a lot of negativity. You know certainly the last bloody year With Brexit, you know, I’m bored of all that, you know, I was a remainer and it’s actually, you know, I’m just glad to see the back of it now and move forward. So, but why do I say that? I say that because you just have to believe in yourself. You’re inner sat nav, you know just believe your gut, your inner sat nav never lets you down. That’s what I’ve learned. Listen to yourself. Be true to yourself. Don’t let people pull you away from where you’re focused on and so many people do that in life. I don’t know what that’s about, but firstly, when I opened my salon and going back to what we said earlier, I would say 99.9% of people said, what are you doing? Opening your own salon. Yeah. But you know, I listened to myself. It was my dream. I wouldn’t be talking to you now Antony

Okay. Well they’re good. That’s good words to start to draw to a close on. Any final words Barrie, Any bits of advice or anything you’d like to say to our audience before we wrap up?

So I think we’ve pretty much said it, you know, I think we, yeah, I think we’ve covered everything in a nut shell. Yeah. I, you know, I believe you can achieve whatever you want to achieve. And I believe hairdressing is the best industry in the world. I wouldn’t want to do anything else? I think we’re all very fortunate. Okay. Well I did just think of one thing that I did want to ask you about and that was awards Yes. I know you’ve won a lot of awards over the years. I wanted to ask you, I get this feeling that awards are having less relevance in this world of social media. Now I think magazines have got less relevance. I think the awards are having less relevance. Just, just your thoughts on that before we wrap up. Yeah, that’s an interesting point.

I mean we have won I think we’ve probably got about 58 national and local awards under our belt. So we have entered a lot of awards and I think that I haven’t, they are Mmm. Very relevant if, if they’re relevant to your business at the time. And I think, you know, a lot of people enter awards for award sake and sadly that isn’t where our focus is now. We’ll only enter an award if we really credible in that and making sure we follow the criteria and tick all the boxes. Do I think they’re great for your business. Yeah. I mean I think they are industry wise and locally. because bringing an award back to the team is a great motivator. And you know, it creates a great buzz. You know, and with social media of course you shout about and celebrate your successes, but less and less, I think you’re right.

You know awards are being kind of overdone to a degree aren’t they? definitely, yeah. And I think this new generation I think this new generation, I just don’t think they’re that interested, which is interesting in itself. So anyway. All right. So Barrie, to wrap up, where can people connect with you on social media or online? What are your Instagram, Facebook website details? Barrie Stephen Okay, so that’s B, A double R. I. A. E. S. T. E. P. H. E. N. You’ve got it. Yeah. So it’s barriestephen.com and it’s it’s at Barrie Stephen on Instagram and Facebook. You’ve got it. Yeah. Yeah, they’re good. Yeah. Okay. All right. So if you’re listening to this podcast with Barrie Stephen and have enjoyed it, then do me a favour, take a screenshot on your phone and share it to your Instagram stories. So to wrap up, Barrie I’d like to thank you for taking an hour and a half out of your very busy day to share your passion and enthusiasm and knowledge and love for the industry on the Grow My Salon Buainess Podcast

So Barrie Stephen, it’s been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much, Antony. Thank you. Cheers.

Thank you for listening to today’s podcast. If you’d like to connect with us, you’ll find us @growmysalonbusiness.com on Facebook and Instagram at grow my salon business. And if you enjoyed tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share it with your friends. Until next time, this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success.